Dongle?? WIll Philharmonik have one??

[Squids]

So, let me explain why it's there and all the benefits of it that in my opinion outdo any negatives which are few.

Boy, does this sound like a salesman talking "That's not a bug, that's a feature!"

(BTW, I notice you edited my post. I'm not amused, but I guess I should have not said the K-word. My point stands, however).

Doug

Sorry about having to edit your post. But, you know why. I didn't want to delete because of the rest of what you wanted to say.

As for the "that's not a bug, that's a feature", I am sure you guys can think what you want. This was decided upon with the idea that overal there were more positives to it than negative. It is a shift though and that is expected to cause some concern at first. But, the product is still the same and does the same things for everyone. We obviously had a choice to do it or not and I think we made the right choice even though I obviously don't like to see anyone be disappointed as well. I think most people will get over any disappointment and really appreciate what we've done with the product and start using it in their music. That's the most important thing that most people will be doing.

[Meffy]

A hub adds one more expense, and is one more thing that can break or get lost (or three if you count yet another wall wart and yet another USB cable).

Ah well, if in the future I can afford Philharmonik (can't now, so it's at least half a moot point) the presence or absence of a dongle wouldn't be a critical factor in deciding whether to buy it. Just one more thing to consider.

I'm sure it's a fine product, and if the dongle makes it possible to transfer license, that's one strong point in its favor.

[Sascha Franck]

Unfortunately, having a spare dongle won't exactly work. Authorisation numbers are only good for one single registration and all you can do is to actually transfer authorisations from one dongle to another - but, as in a worst case scenario the source dongle would be broken, this won't take you anywhere.

[Squids]

How unfortunate. It seems strange to me that you announce a new product, open it for pre-orders, writing about it in many and lenghty posts, but somehow fail to mention it will use a dongle instead of challange/response.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I'm going to ask for a refund. The reason is, if you are interested, that I use Sampletank & Sonik Synth 2 on two computers, one desktop and one laptop. As I'm a frequent traveller, using my laptop for composing, I'm not so keen on the prospect of losing a dongle. I'm sure there will be "ugly" versions available but I won't install any on my computers.

I knew that some would find that strange but I needed to wait until that information was disclosed by IK before I could say anything in case that changed up until the last minute since copy protection is one of the final stages of a product. Please understand that if I said something and it was incorrect then I would catch a lot of heat (which happens sometimes too). So, now that the news is out I can discuss it. The products haven't shipped yet.

But, I explained this already in a previous post. Obviously there is no tricking involved. No one is stuck. Of course you can cancel your pre-order if that is what you really want. But, you'd be missing out on a great deal on a fantastic product. Remember that the price will go up after pre-orders are over and then again in October. Remember too that this was a very expensive library for a price 10X less that we're including in this as well.

I too have desktops and laptops. You can install the software on all of your machines and use the Ikey which whatever machine you are using. I don't know about you but I have to do this with my Cubase, Logic and/or ProTools and it's that big of a deal.

[Squids]

Unfortunately, having a spare dongle won't exactly work. Authorisation numbers are only good for one single registration and all you can do is to actually transfer authorisations from one dongle to another - but, as in a worst case scenario the source dongle would be broken, this won't take you anywhere.

If it breaks then like anything else in the physical world it needs to be fixed or replaced.

[Sascha Franck]

If it breaks then like anything else in the physical world it needs to be fixed or replaced.

Yeah, but you were talking about using a spare one - which would require authorizing the software twice.

[Squids]

A hub adds one more expense, and is one more thing that can break or get lost (or three if you count yet another wall wart and yet another USB cable).

Ah well, if in the future I can afford Philharmonik (can't now, so it's at least half a moot point) the presence or absence of a dongle wouldn't be a critical factor in deciding whether to buy it. Just one more thing to consider.

I'm sure it's a fine product, and if the dongle makes it possible to transfer license, that's one strong point in its favor.

There are a lot of points but the biggest one is that the product needs adequate protection. Overall, I am very confident that it will in fact sell more copies because if people really want it (which they should because it is really cool) then they'll have to buy their own copy instead of going in on it with a friend or just copying from a friend etc. However, just because overall that will most likely be the case it doesn't meant that I don't care a lot about each and every one of you here or our esoundz customers. We'd do anything we could to keep you satisfied. Even my time spent here answering your important questions and concerns costs us a great deal (imagine there is a company of over 20 people at SR doing their work while their CEO is here explaining personally about why and how we have to protect our work... I could be working on sounds right now.)

Anyway, no one is going to leave you out in the cold. With regard to esoundz in particular, we stand by our customers and will be there when you need anything. There's that extra layer of support you get where we follow up or make things happen that are what you expect to happen (even in unusual circumstances... such as your dog eating the key ).

[Squids]

If it breaks then like anything else in the physical world it needs to be fixed or replaced.

Yeah, but you were talking about using a spare one - which would require authorizing the software twice.

I see. Well, I don't argue with Sascha.

[Sascha Franck]

You know, I'm not argueing yet at all. It's just that there should be a solution which would satisfy both you and your customers.
I'm not all that unhappy with my Logic and SX dongles, but I'm still living in permanent fear one of them would break (especially since I'm still using Logic/PC).
I'm also not all that happy with C/R either, but so far it seems to be a somewhat better way for me, especially with something like, say, NIs automated process of unregistering a machine being a rather easy thing.
Of course I'm totally happy with my FXpansion products, as they just use a serial and that was about it. I think they're not doing all that bad either...

[Squids]

You know, I'm not argueing yet at all. It's just that there should be a solution which would satisfy both you and your customers.
I'm not all that unhappy with my Logic and SX dongles, but I'm still living in permanent fear one of them would break (especially since I'm still using Logic/PC).
I'm also not all that happy with C/R either, but so far it seems to be a somewhat better way for me, especially with something like, say, NIs automated process of unregistering a machine being a rather easy thing.
Of course I'm totally happy with my FXpansion products, as they just use a serial and that was about it. I think they're not doing all that bad either...

I know. I was kidding. FXpansion is many times a smaller sized company than IK. They also don't do as many products as Steinberg, IK and others. Maybe they can sacrifice the loss of people sharing their product because they are less people but that could limit them from growing too... from fxpanding. Who knows? At SR we'd be dealing with both sides anyway since we also make libraries that are open wabbit season for people copying if they really want to... and also, even when it comes to plug-ins there are people that somehow find a way around everything (let's just leave it at that ). But, it's all about economy of returns relative to what you outlay for a product. It isn't an easy decision. Of course I WISH that none of this was necessary at all and people respected the developers more like you guys do around here.

Well, anyway, you are making a very good point. I wouldn't live in fear though. Those USB keys are pretty rugged. No moving parts. I was just making this comment about a thumb drive that we toss all over the room. Never has a problem probably because it's just tightly constructed. Of course, don't go swimming with it!

[dougsyo]

I'm also not all that happy with C/R either, but so far it seems to be a somewhat better way for me, especially with something like, say, NIs automated process of unregistering a machine being a rather easy thing.
Of course I'm totally happy with my FXpansion products, as they just use a serial and that was about it. I think they're not doing all that bad either...

I've got a dead ST2LE registration out there, from a machine that doesn't exist any more. I haven't loaded ST2LE on the replacement, but that'll use my third "easy" authorization. An automated system like NI's would be helpful, but I have grudgingly accepted C/R copy protection - you can't get products like Sonik Synth, GPO, EWQLSO, Tassman, etc without it, and the cost or availability of alternatives isn't practical. I still loathe it.

But at this point I'm still in a place to "vote with my feet" on dongles. I hope to stay there for some time. How long before a new version of SS2 or ST2XL requires a dongle? That actually has a bearing on purchases now, because if I buy now and they eventually phase out C/R in favor of dongles, then I'm stuck - so I guess that potentially *all* IK present and future products are black-listed for now, at least for me.

Doug

[IK Support]

Doug: Once you run out of codes just let us know and we will unlock more for you...

[Megakazbek]

Dongles are bad. These things cost money and I prefer to pay for the product, not for its sophisticated protection scheme. They will take up USB ports. They look ugly (however, that's subjective). And I bet Philarmonik won't work with Receptor, which is really a shame.
And will ST2.1 support this dongle, so Philarmonik sounds can be used in Sampletank?

[vic_france]

Hi Squids,
With the current ST2/SS2, IK Multimedia allow up to three simultaneous C/R authorizations, am I right? Do you think they could be persuaded to allow 3 iKey licenses? (I'm not suggesting they actually supply 3 physical iKeys.. I don't know how much they cost, but I do know that the iLock costs about $40 a piece), meaning that one can buy one (or two) extra iKeys, and be allowed to authorize them online?

[Mr. Slater's Parrot]

So what is the official word on dongle replacement?

Suppose I load up several thousand dollars worth of software on one dongle -- for convenience, so I don't have to with deal multiple dongles.

1) If I lose that dongle, have I lost all the money? Or, is there some way to reauthorized all the software on a new dongle. My guess is that I've lost all the money.

2) If the dongle breaks, what happens? Can it be returned somewhere as a "proof of original ownership" such that a new, replacement dongle can be reauthorized? If the dongle carries authorization numbers from multiple software vendors, is there a single, centralized source for getting all authorizations redone on a new dongle? Or, do I have to deal with each company separately? If the latter, how will that be possible, given one broken dongle? Is there any mechanism to use the software on an emergency basis during this time?

As Sascha indicated in previous posts, the mechanism for transferring authorizations from one dongle to another presumes that the original dongle was neither lost nor broken.

So, how is it all going to work?