Slate Virtual Console Plugin is now available

[Nokenoku]

You said through the flowers that I am too stupid to know/interpret what the readouts actually mean.

Umm .. I thought that's rather what you said (replacing "stupid" with "uninformed").
Anyways .. let's not waste our time on missunderstandings.
Like I said, I'm not interested in those measurements or who stole from whom or not.

It's simply the way Slate is responding to those things here in the forum. I simply can't trust any developer (and don't want to support him), who acts like that.



And sorry, but I'm not familiar with Crysonic and Sonimus.
I only remember, that Crysonic fu**ed up their customers by never providing promised updates/fixes or even went totally inactive.
But yeah .. let's talk about this in a PM in german.

[Mercado_Negro]

@Compyfox:

No, it was just about VCC's global calibration. Please read below...

PLease do...have you started elsewhere?

No, I think I'll discuss it here and see how it goes...

Let's see, I thought the whole calibration deal was supposed to move your 0VU down or up but according to some critical listening tests I've been doing here that's not what happens. I set the global calibration to -23.5dB when I got my iLok2 back in April after doing some 'raw' tests because that's what got me closer to 0VU in VCC's meters but thanks to this wrong metering I realize now I made a terrible mistake because the calibration just "squeezes" your headroom, it doesn't really move our 0VU... sigh I didn't notice it in the past because I was luckily working with mixes with low level signals but yesterday I did a rough mix and took an hour to compare it to SatSon, just for fun (and knowledge). That mix was previously leveled and almost everything was close to 0VU. The mix sounded way better when I switched all VCC instances for SatSon instances and I was like "wtf??"... it was like 10 times better, I was puzzled as hell, to be honest. Today I remembered the calibration part and drove to the studio to check it out. Now I understand this calibration business (well, I think, hopefully some of you or even Slate can give me some more info about this). That calibration slider just "squeezes" your headroom, that's why that mix was "lifeless" and "choked".

I know I was fooled by my eyes instead of trusting my ears (once again, grr) but please Slate, fix these VCC's meters, they're almost useless man

Thanks!

[trimph1]

lol at the anti-Semitic remark Steven (set that one up nicely for you by the way! I knew you'd jump on that as a diversion!)

Yet again you dodge questions, come over as passive aggressive and totally unprofessional. THAT Mr Lintz is why i bait you on these forums. No personal agenda its just you simply suffer from seriousdelusions of grandeur and need to be brought down to reality. Lets be honest i do this while im sitting having coffee breaks and it amuses the hell out of me. I'm not a stalker, no more nuts than the rest of us and just trying to ensure the world of software plugins doesnt become monopolized by uncouth developers. You are trying to monopolise the market. Its obvious to anyone with a brain. Not even Waves gets as much flak as you on forums (and thats mostly because of WUP) Doesnt that maybe make you think its YOU thats the problem Steven? Think about it and get back to me


PS-What were those desks you modeled?

Wow. Just. Wow.

This seems a little OTT don't you think?

[koolkeys]

Rhythmmaster you cute little annoying kid you.. not that it matters to this thread or whether or not the VCC will be a good plugin for you..., but since mixing and mastering George Lynch's album in the winter, I've mastered tracks for the band Revis, mixed and mastered two singles for a hot new band called Delta Rose, currently mixing a wonderful Swiss band called The Hundred Days, wrote and produced about two albums worth of pop songs with various writers like Griffon Boice, mastered at least five or six albums for various other bands (it'll be on allmusic soon sorry I can't name them all), and all the while, I've run an audio company and as you have already concluded, plotted to manipulate people's brains via DSP so I can soon rule the world.

Since 2005 I've worked very hard on my audio companies, but I've made a commitment this year to take more time to make music, so look for more to come soon lil buddy.

Here's a really great up and coming Nashville artist Ashlee Williss.. I wrote (with her), produced, mixed, and mastered her song The Bottom.. here is a video of it, I really love her voice:


.

So basically you've done a little bit of mixing and mastering for some unsigned bands and an 80s shredder. Given you make a point of listing those i assume thats the pinnacle of your "Discography" right? That Ashlee Willis Youtube video has been on there for 3 months and has less that 2,000 views. Lets contrast that with the Strokes new song which was uploaded around the same time-it has over 4,000,000 views. Make of that what you will. It makes me think you Steven are not a professional mixer or producer. There's nothing wrong with that at all, there is a lot wrong with you alluding to being a pro to give yourself credibility. Oh and i know its an artistic decision but do you really think those Slate drum samples are the right sounds for that type of song, particularly in the verse?
Ok cool you've answered that one so at least we know now you are hardly a well experienced mixing or mastering engineer-dont have a problem with that its just nice to have some evidence.

Ok Steve would you care to inform your customers and potential customers (the most important groups in business right?) which actual desks were modeled. Please dont mention your own desk or the one your mate owns. I'll put my cards on the table and say i dont think you guys modeled any desks. I think it was 1 of 2 options.

1. Fabrice came up with an algo that sounded kinda SSL.
Fabrice then changed the EQ curve, transfer function, stereo width etc.. of this Algo and created new algos and you guys named them according to the associations you wanted the potentials customers make.

2. You make some IRs and your plug is IR based. In fact a friend of mines claims this is why it doesnt play nicely when wrapped in Protools.

Steve i only ask this as myself and a lot of engineers i work with (and their clients) are very reluctant to support your products as we kinda see you as, well pretty disingenuous. So Steven prove me wrong and maybe more of us will open our wallets for you.

Please dont side step any of the subtleties of these questions as myself and others will just keep asking them and the more you dont answer the more doubt will be built in the mind of your potential customer base.

You've made more idiotic assumptions and false claims in this one post than Slate could have even attempted to make in all his posts in this topic. Seriously, do YOU have evidence of ANY of this? Have YOU done anything worth mentioning?

I don't know you, nor do I know your history with Slate. But as a third party, you sure do come off sounding like the stalker that Steven is claiming you are. I've met Steven, and seen him deal directly with some of the biggest names in the studio industry. I don't know Steven on a personal level, but he seemed like a nice enough chap the times I did speak to him and interact with him.

Is he a fake? I don't see any evidence of it. Are you a fake? Honestly, I don't even know who you are claiming to be(maybe Mickey Mouse? Who knows, your guess is as good as mine). But it's obvious to myself and any other unbiased onlookers that YOU are the one with the slanderous motives and the objective to bring somebody down. You've done nothing to actually prove any of the gibberish you've spewed at Steven, and you even ignored when he DID answer questions.

Seems it's pretty apparent who the poser is here........

[macmurphy]

i've seen some extreme and personal developer bashing going on round here recently - directed both at small and big devs - and quite frankly it makes me sick.
getting to ask developers questions is great, it's what makes this forum such a useful and interesting place. but getting personal is just plain wrong. you people who are doing it should be ashamed. you are letting us all down by your behaviour.

I couldn't care less if Steven said he developed all his software in his secret lair in olympus mons on mars - in the end it all comes down to functionality, quality and sound.

[koolkeys]

i've seen some extreme and personal developer bashing going on round here recently - directed both at small and big devs - and quite frankly it makes me sick.
getting to ask developers questions is great, it's what makes this forum such a useful and interesting place. but getting personal is just plain wrong. you people who are doing it should be ashamed. you are letting us all down by your behaviour.

I couldn't care less if Steven said he developed all his software in his secret lair in olympus mons on mars - in the end it all comes down to functionality, quality and sound.

Unfortunately, some people believe that everyone is evil and that developers are just greedy little suckers trying to take advantage of people. They assume that those who create products they don't like must have some type of alternative motive, and they make a fool of themselves trying to convince others of it.

Why it becomes so personal, I don't know. We all love the tools we use and get attached to them at some point, but getting THAT upset about a developer instead of just moving on......that is definitely quite sad.

Brent

[kelvyn]

Can someone please close this thread!

Come on guys! This has reached rock bottom. I cannot believe that so much aggression and animosity is coming from people who are on a forum about music. If Mr Slate chooses to advertise his product using hyperbol then... so what. And who is to say it is hype. People like Mr C Fox and others seem to like his product so it can't be that bad.
Once again the lunatics are taking over the asylum.... Sad sad sad:(

[rhythmmaster]

Can someone please close this thread!

Come on guys! This has reached rock bottom. I cannot believe that so much aggression and animosity is coming from people who are on a forum about music. If Mr Slate chooses to advertise his product using hyperbol then... so what. And who is to say it is hype. People like Mr C Fox and others seem to like his product so it can't be that bad.
Once again the lunatics are taking over the asylum.... Sad sad sad:(

I can never figure out why posters want threads closed? Why does it matter to you if its open or not?
A stalker? That is hilarious. Let me show you how i "stalk' Slate

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=steven+slate

[Nokenoku]

People like Mr C Fox and others seem to like his product so it can't be that bad.

Ouch ... now statements like that are really sad.

@koolkeys
I don't think, developers are evil. In fact I think, most of them are engineers and scientists, who try to develope something great.
Slate however is not a developer and he's not a scientist. He might be an audio-engineer, which has nothing to do with a real engineer.
And he certainly tries to sell a useless product.

But hey .. he's not the only one ..
AbbeyRoadsPlugins is selling absolutely generic EQs, which are using the same standard-algorithms you can find in 99% of all the free- and payware EQs.
They pretend to have done emulations, but in fact they not even tried to emulate anything. The curves of the TG12412 are not symmetric and there's no saturation. It's a freeware-EQ in a cute GUI sold for over $300.

So yeah .. maybe we should forget about Slate and concentrate on "developers", who are really bold.

[Compyfox]

KVR is turning more and more into a Jerry Springer format

sums it up pretty much.

They pretend to have done emulations, but in fact they not even tried to emulate anything. The curves of the TG12412 are not symmetric and there's no saturation. It's a freeware-EQ in a cute GUI sold for over $300.

This is indeed a bold claim that needs testing and info backup (even contacting Softube in this case, at least for the "passive" presence boxes), but then again, not related to VCC but more like "all digital EQs are the same" (another thread here in the FX section).

Which was an interesting, yet funny topic full of crazy stuff (and nonsense) as well if I may add.

Let's see, I thought the whole calibration deal was supposed to move your 0VU down or up but according to some critical listening tests I've been doing here that's not what happens.

The VU and therfore headroom shift was my impression as well.

I set the global calibration to -23.5dB when I got my iLok2 back in April after doing some 'raw' tests because that's what got me closer to 0VU in VCC's meters but thanks to this wrong metering I realize now I made a terrible mistake because the calibration just "squeezes" your headroom, it doesn't really move our 0VU... sigh I didn't notice it in the past because I was luckily working with mixes with low level signals but yesterday I did a rough mix and took an hour to compare it to SatSon, just for fun (and knowledge). That mix was previously leveled and almost everything was close to 0VU. The mix sounded way better when I switched all VCC instances for SatSon instances and I was like "wtf??"... it was like 10 times better, I was puzzled as hell, to be honest.

Again, to my impression it was like that the headroom is basically "adjusted" (see below). Meaning, if I setup the calibration to -24dB, it should distort sooner if I apply a -18dB RMS level in front of it.

If you say that is not the case - interesting. Because on my end, simply nothing happens if I go that low - the volume is actually pulled down as well. At least with the Final releases. Beta 2.x had no calibration, the "mixbuss" was setup to -18dB (RMS) = 0VU, the channelw as completely off.

Today I remembered the calibration part and drove to the studio to check it out. Now I understand this calibration business (well, I think, hopefully some of you or even Slate can give me some more info about this). That calibration slider just "squeezes" your headroom, that's why that mix was "lifeless" and "choked".

Well if it's like advertised, the "calibration" should setup a somewhat threshold when the saturation kicks in. Since we're talking about the digital realm, we need a VU meter with 300ms to cross-check for the time being until the plugin is fixed(!). 0VU would then mean -18dB RMS if the calibration is -18dB, 300ms integration time - not digital peak (which can be higher of course)!

The +24dB headroom that is mostly mentioned in manuals of consoles are then the available decibels beyond the 0VU point until the signal goes totally downhill (soft clipping), which is in reality somewhat between +10dB and +12dB. Due to measuring the signal in RMS values, the peak can still reach out to the +12dB "peak wise", but measured with a quasi PPM at 5ms integration time. Or in case of our host, instantly (digital), hence my color codes from a while back. -6dBFS digital peak would mean the absolute upper end on individual channels and busses that resemble the console and utilize such a plugin.


The digial peak on the mixbuss post <younameit> plugin can be higher if rendered out in high bitrates (not important if rendered out in 32bit float). Though here I advice you to not go higher than -3dBFS to -1dBFS digital peak, just in case. Way lower if redenred out in 16bit.


So (to confuse you even more):
0VU = -18dB RMS, digital peak can be (program material dependent) way higher and reach on individual channels up to -6dBFS digital peak.
+12VU = -6dB RMS, digital peak will definitely be way beyond 0dBFS digital. In case of the mixdown, we have a way past radio level mix (aka squarewave) if the signal is limited or completely destroyed while not utilising a limiter (digital clipping.


Again, this is my impression what I got out of the manual and the comparision to a hardware module. Took me a while to wrap my head around it as well, since everytime people were talking about -18dBFS and meant "peak", not "RMS" (average level) in terms of calibration.


BTW:
Since you seems to be knowledged in Nebula as well, did you do comparisions with any random AlexB console preset? They're also calibrated to -18dB RMS according to the manual.

I know I was fooled by my eyes instead of trusting my ears (once again, grr) but please Slate, fix these VCC's meters, they're almost useless man

Agreed! A clarification in case is more than needed.

[tq]

@koolkeys
I don't think, developers are evil. In fact I think, most of them are engineers and scientists, who try to develope something great.
Slate however is not a developer and he's not a scientist. He might be an audio-engineer, which has nothing to do with a real engineer.
And he certainly tries to sell a useless product.

You are certainly aware of the fact that the plug ins are developed by Fabrice Gabriel, who is the guy behind Eiosis? So why does it matter to you who is the CEO or owner of the company? It's not Slate who is engineering and programming the whole thing, but a guy who is supposed to be a very talented programmer (and judging form his former Eiosis products, he definitively is).

Agreed, Slate didn't communicate professionally in his last posts, but there is an enormous amount of trolling and stalking against him and his company going on, and from that perspective, I can understand his emotional reaction. Being stalked is not funny at all, and it's probably hard to keep cool in that situation. And the last posts by rhythmmaster certainly make him look like a pretty sad stalker...

Maybe a mod should do something about this thread.

[rhythmmaster]

Agreed, Slate didn't communicate professionally in his last posts, but there is an enormous amount of trolling and stalking against him and his company going on, and from that perspective, I can understand his emotional reaction. Being stalked is not funny at all, and it's probably hard to keep cool in that situation. And the last posts by rhythmmaster certainly make him look like a pretty sad stalker...

Maybe a mod should do something about this thread.

at the stalking comment. Slate really does know that negative associations work-hey that "Rhythmmaster" is a stalker which makes him creepy which in turn makes you creepy if i dont say what hes doing is creepy

As i said the height of my stalking involves typing steven slate into google. Give it ago yourself if you want to be a super creepy mega stalker

Let me throw one last observation into the equation. We all know what Slate looks like right as he insists on having his pic attached to everything he does. what do the guys look like behind

1. UAD
2. Waves
3. Softtube
4. Sonalksis
5. IK
6. Soundtoys
7. Nebula
8. URS

No didnt think you would know that either!

What was that thing Freud used to talk about beinging with E........

[penguinfromdeep]

Let me throw one last observation into the equation. We all know what Slate looks like right as he insists on having his pic attached to everything he does. what do the guys look like behind

What does this have to do with anything? Even if he was a raving mad lunatic he still makes great plug-ins and that's what's important. He can put his face anywhere he wants. And btw I know what guys from Softube look like from their videos.

[rhythmmaster]

Let me throw one last observation into the equation. We all know what Slate looks like right as he insists on having his pic attached to everything he does. what do the guys look like behind

What does this have to do with anything? Even if he was a raving mad lunatic he still makes great plug-ins and that's what's important. And btw I know what guys from Softube look like from their videos.

think about it, Anyway Slate doesnt make anything. He just tries to sell plugins like a used car sales man to a demographic he can control easily.........also i think he comes from a minted family which could if its true help to get people on your payroll so to speak. However that is just mere speculation on my part so should be taken with a pinch of creepy stalker salt

[penguinfromdeep]

Again, what does that have to do with anything.
Of course he tries to sell as much as he can, he is in a business. I even smell some jealousy from your posts, it's great if he can get the best programmers in the world work for him, and in my opinion it has paid off.