KVR Audio

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:50 pm

[DELETED]

RLSguitar · Post by **RLSguitar** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:06 am

Please pardon me for this elaborate post but after lurking on multiple threads with similar behavior to that expressed in this thread, I feel the burning need to post my viewpoint. Here are a few points I hope you will consider about software products and developers (and business and people in general), IMHO (DISCLAIMER: I am not a software developer but have worked with a few):

* Releasing or not software that is buggy just to meet the projected launch date - It is better to take all the time needed to assure that a software product is released to the public only after it has been fully tested, deemed bug free, and truly ready to function without issues on most targeted computer platforms and systems. Of course, there will always be minor bugs that arise after the release despite how much it is tested prior since it is practically impossible to reliably predict each individual user's computer configuration, setup and use habits (cases).

* Instituting quality of service first that encompasses high-caliber customer care and support - Software is a combination of product and services so the quality of products and services must be of prime concern. This should ensure total customer satisfaction with a rapid response in addressing all customer issues and concerns. Though you can never satisfy everyone, but you can try your best and be honest when you cannot provide a solution and sincerely explain why.

* Adapting to technology advances and market trends - Albeit the above points, however, there are times when technology advances and/or significant changes in user needs and behavior may require an intermediate release to satisfy market demands and remain competitive; e.g.: 64-bit, multiprocessing, proliferation of mobile devices, software as a service/cloud computing, etc.

* Determining an ideal feature set - Inherently, most software products provide more features than most users will ever need, learn or use. This is inevitable because developers must consider comprehensive conglomerates of overlapping use cases. Some user groups (or conglomerates) will use the same features but some individuals will need additional features that others may not use. In the end, very few power users may use the software to its full potential. If you consider this, than a modular approach or offering a core package with optional add-ons that the user can purchase if so desired is ideal.

* Formulating a profitable income stream - Charging for continuous yearly upgrades even though the changes aren't significant from the previous version is a big turn off for me, especially if these changes mostly are bug fixes. Instead, I would prefer to pay either a reasonable monthly/yearly subscription fee or a reasonable mayor upgrade price every 5 years. Minor updates including bug fixes should be included in the price. I understand that software developers and their coworkers need to eat and that profit is an incentive to continue producing better products and services. Donationware developers must eat and have expenses too, so I gladly donate to developers who produce great software that I love using.

* Having people-centric core values and processes - Ultimately, in addition to products, services and profits, all software developers and businesses in general must value people above all. After all, it's all about the people; customers, employees, communities are all made of people. So in my very humble opinion, the human aspect is the most important point to consider when producing or purchasing a product or service. Businesses need to be more personable with their customers, employees and community in general. Though there are always bad apples in the bunch, compassion, courtesy, dignity and respect must prevail.

* Demonstrating uncompromising integrity in customer relations - Behaving in a respectful, professional manner must demonstrate these values to customers and prove that integrity is never compromised. However, interpersonal relations and mutual respect is a two-way street. Customers and users must also do there part in providing constructive feedback and respecting the humans who develop the software and represent the corporate entity.

We are all imperfectly human and prone to making mistakes, so if we are willing to admit our errors and wrongdoings and try to make amends, we deserve the chance to do so, even in business. I honestly believe that most of the developers that interact here on KVR --including IKM-- have the best of intentions in satisfying their users, customers, and prospects. If not, I'm sure "the human market" will sooner or later drive them out of business. That's one of the many good things about a free market.

Peace and blessings to all of you!

TheKid · Post by **TheKid** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:55 am

Satisfiying customers is a side effect(most times). This is a business where money is made. The developers doing it for customer satisfaction are a minority.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:58 am

@RLSguitar: I'm not sure I followed everything, but mostly that is some good stuff.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:37 am

The bottom line for me is I love IK Multimedia software. Every time I make music I use at least one IK plugin and usually several more. If I didn't love Sampletank I wouldn't care about version 3 and I wouldn't be in this thread. In my case one of the hosts I use doesn't have a Bit Bridge so yes I care about a 64 bit version since I've moved to a new 64 bit system......and I'll gladly pay for it. I don't expect anything for free. In the link that Peter gave earlier he mentions Workstation and that reminds me that I use ST as a 16 layer Rompler like the Roland U-220 and Korg 01R/W hardware I own. I'm excited about ST 3 and it's new features and sounds. Do I want it today ? Yes. Am I willing to wait ? Yes even though I want Kontakt and will hopefully own it one day I still lust after ST 3 as a way to get those nostalgic Rompler sounds I used in years past.

Yes I give iK multimedia grief for the time it's taking for a ST 3 to be released but that's only because I care....Like I've said several times in this thread the fact that people are still talking about and still care about a ST3 after all this time is a good thing......Not sure what's taking so long whether it's the engine or the sample content but yes I want ST 3 now.......that just means I love ST....that can't be a bad thing.

RLSguitar · Post by **RLSguitar** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:39 am

hibidy wrote:@RLSguitar: I'm not sure I followed everything, but mostly that is some good stuff.

Thanks for the kind words, hibidy! If you wish, I can try to explain better if you let me know what wasn't clear for you.

planetearth · Post by **planetearth** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:57 am

Teksonik wrote:The bottom line for me is I love IK Multimedia software. Every time I make music I use at least one IK plugin and usually several more. If I didn't love Sampletank I wouldn't care about version 3 and I wouldn't be in this thread. In my case one of the hosts I use doesn't have a Bit Bridge so yes I care about a 64 bit version since I've moved to a new 64 bit system......and I'll gladly pay for it. I don't expect anything for free. In the link that Peter gave earlier he mentions Workstation and that reminds me that I use ST as a 16 layer Rompler like the Roland U-220 and Korg 01R/W hardware I own. I'm excited about ST 3 and it's new features and sounds. Do I want it today ? Yes. Am I willing to wait ? Yes even though I want Kontakt and will hopefully own it one day I still lust after ST 3 as a way to get those nostalgic Rompler sounds I used in years past.

Yes I give iK multimedia grief for the time it's taking for a ST 3 to be released but that's only because I care....Like I've said several times in this thread the fact that people are still talking about and still care about a ST3 after all this time is a good thing......Not sure what's taking so long whether it's the engine or the sample content but yes I want ST 3 now.......that just means I love ST....that can't be a bad thing.

+1

Steve

lotus2035 · Post by **lotus2035** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:26 am

Are we there yet?

yevster · Post by **yevster** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:30 am

Teksonik wrote:The bottom line for me is I love IK Multimedia software. Every time I make music I use at least one IK plugin and usually several more. If I didn't love Sampletank I wouldn't care about version 3 and I wouldn't be in this thread. In my case one of the hosts I use doesn't have a Bit Bridge so yes I care about a 64 bit version since I've moved to a new 64 bit system......and I'll gladly pay for it. I don't expect anything for free. In the link that Peter gave earlier he mentions Workstation and that reminds me that I use ST as a 16 layer Rompler like the Roland U-220 and Korg 01R/W hardware I own. I'm excited about ST 3 and it's new features and sounds. Do I want it today ? Yes. Am I willing to wait ? Yes even though I want Kontakt and will hopefully own it one day I still lust after ST 3 as a way to get those nostalgic Rompler sounds I used in years past.

Yes I give iK multimedia grief for the time it's taking for a ST 3 to be released but that's only because I care....Like I've said several times in this thread the fact that people are still talking about and still care about a ST3 after all this time is a good thing......Not sure what's taking so long whether it's the engine or the sample content but yes I want ST 3 now.......that just means I love ST....that can't be a bad thing.

Stockholm syndrome?

mkdr · Post by **mkdr** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:53 pm

yevster wrote:
Teksonik wrote:The bottom line for me is I love IK Multimedia software. Every time I make music I use at least one IK plugin and usually several more. If I didn't love Sampletank I wouldn't care about version 3 and I wouldn't be in this thread. In my case one of the hosts I use doesn't have a Bit Bridge so yes I care about a 64 bit version since I've moved to a new 64 bit system......and I'll gladly pay for it. I don't expect anything for free. In the link that Peter gave earlier he mentions Workstation and that reminds me that I use ST as a 16 layer Rompler like the Roland U-220 and Korg 01R/W hardware I own. I'm excited about ST 3 and it's new features and sounds. Do I want it today ? Yes. Am I willing to wait ? Yes even though I want Kontakt and will hopefully own it one day I still lust after ST 3 as a way to get those nostalgic Rompler sounds I used in years past.

Yes I give iK multimedia grief for the time it's taking for a ST 3 to be released but that's only because I care....Like I've said several times in this thread the fact that people are still talking about and still care about a ST3 after all this time is a good thing......Not sure what's taking so long whether it's the engine or the sample content but yes I want ST 3 now.......that just means I love ST....that can't be a bad thing.
Stockholm syndrome?

Peter - IK Multimedia · Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:56 pm

yevster wrote:The meaning is, when you buy Miroslav or any Sampletank-based product, nowhere is there a disclaimer that the present product will not work on the current versions of two most-popular DAWs. Had IK been merely selling sounds for a third-party platform, they'd have no responsibility over the platform. Then, they'd have to post a big fat disclaimer that a separate purchase is required to use the sounds.

Instead, IK is selling products that require an additional purchase to be used on the two most popular DAWs without explicitly warning customers of this. This is especially shameful given that group buys target primarily new customers. And, there's no return policy.

On the Specs page (reachable from the product page itself):

But if that isn't enough, and I can see that it may not explain it well enough for everybody, who doesn't demo software before buying it? We have a fully free version of SampleTank 2.5 (which is the engine one would be using with what they purchase in a group buy before SampleTank 3 is released) with more than enough sounds to get a feel for the product and you can use the engine in your DAW to kick the tires and if it doesn't work that may just raise a red flag. In that case there's also an entry in our FAQ about 64-bit compatibility and our support team can answer pre-sales questions too.

We're not trying to sell people something that doesn't work for them, nor do we have any vested interest in them paying extra to get it to work so there's no benefit in that for us. Take us to task for the disappointment in this latest announcement and for not providing a 64-bit version that will meet your needs but we're not trying to get people to purchase things they cannot use or keeping them from being able to get the information and even assess the compatibility of the tools themselves.

yevster · Post by **yevster** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:29 pm

And if the IK website was the only sales channel, that might have been ok.

See any mention of the 32-bit limitation on any of these pages?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... ductDetail
https://www.esoundz.com/sounds/samplemoog/1661.html
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ST2XL-e/
http://audiodeluxe.com/products/ik-mult ... tank-25-xl

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:44 pm

yevster wrote:Stockholm syndrome?

No I don't feel like anyone is being held "hostage". You're certainly free to sell your Sampletank and move on....When I first purchased ST, 64 bit was only a dream.....no one promised us a 64 bit version and at that time I didn't care one bit.

Having said that do I think that Sampletank 3 has taken a ridiculously long time to develop ? Yes. Five years is a long for for any software to be in development even when sample based which of course requires a lot more work in recording, processing, looping etc.

It's possible to be happy with one aspect of a company such as my appreciation of T Racks plugins and still be dissatisfied with another part of a company such as the slow development of ST3 not only for a 64 bit version but for a more functional GUI, added features, updated sample content etc.....

There is an area between rabid hater and mindless fanboi.........

Peter - IK Multimedia · Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:53 pm

yevster wrote:And if the IK website was the only sales channel, that might have been ok.

See any mention of the 32-bit limitation on any of these pages?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... ductDetail
https://www.esoundz.com/sounds/samplemoog/1661.html
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ST2XL-e/
http://audiodeluxe.com/products/ik-mult ... tank-25-xl

We don't control what dealers post (as much as I'm sure some would like to), but as a safeguard against this I ask again who wouldn't demo the software they are plunking down money on?

Peter - IK Multimedia · Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:56 pm

Teksonik wrote: Having said that do I think that Sampletank 3 has taken a ridiculously long time to develop ? Yes. Five years is a long for for any software to be in development even when sample based which of course requires a lot more work in recording, processing, looping etc.

A sincere "fair enough" to you on that, Teksonik.

Countdown to Sample Tank 3, with 64 bit support