The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[pdxindy]

I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

Also Con

Bitwig instrument layers do not have as good vel/key split controls like Live racks. (No blend controls)

First one seems like a matter of opinion.

Wait until you unfold Zebra for the first time and there are hundreds of parameters with some having cryptic names... then you will add it to the list!

[Ogopogo]

Ok, I will have to consider that.

When it comes to the vel/key splitting in the instrument layer, what exactly is the state of things? Because if it is simply that there is no blending I dunno if that makes the cut either. Sorry if I seem super picky, but I want it to be more of an overview of features. If we are listing stuff like that I think the list will end up seriously long and we will inevitably miss stuff in both Live and Bitwig so it will become a bit misleading.

[virtualmark]

I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

Also Con

Bitwig instrument layers do not have as good vel/key split controls like Live racks. (No blend controls)

First one seems like a matter of opinion.

Wait until you unfold Zebra for the first time and there are hundreds of parameters with some having cryptic names... then you will add it to the list!

Yeah from what I remember Diva has cryptic names too. Several identical names, which means that you basically have to guess which parameter you're automation. It's really annoying, I wish U-He would sort their naming system out.

[codec17]

Cons:
-Drum Racks don't have their own sends

Aaaah really? This is a big bummer for me.

I just wrote this in my other post but just so it doesn't get lost in there: You can still use sends on an individual drum pad as you can see in this screen shot: http://www.screendream.de/stuff/Bitwig/ ... Groups.jpg

So it's just a different process than the ableton way of setting up your own sends within the drum rack instrument. I actually prefer having the sends on the mixer strips instead.

tHNX! Really need to think this trough...

[pdxindy]

Ok, I will have to consider that.

When it comes to the vel/key splitting in the instrument layer, what exactly is the state of things? Because if it is simply that there is no blending I dunno if that makes the cut either. Sorry if I seem super picky, but I want it to be more of an overview of features. If we are listing stuff like that I think the list will end up seriously long and we will inevitably miss stuff in both Live and Bitwig so it will become a bit misleading.

My understanding with Bitwig is that you will have to put a midi device before each instrument to define the key or velocity range. Then if you want to change it you have to go to each layer and edit that device.

Live racks are a thing of beauty. The rack itself has key and velocity splits built in and each has the fade handles also for blending. You also have the chainer so you can use say the Modwheel to switch between active layers. It takes seconds to make complex key/velocity splits.

[Ogopogo]

Oh yeah. I remember now. I'll include that.

[The Mantra]

I left that one out because I am not totally sure of that. There was an exchange a couple of pages back or so where Kennyda said there was groove quantize. I asked for some clarification as to whether that meant just shuffle or custom grooves and have not heard back. If any tester could confirm that would be good.

What was stated previously is that there is swing but no groove control

In Ableton, you can extract grooves, save them in the groove pool and apply them via percentage to any clips one wants. One can keep it non destructive or fix it to the notes. So you can play a part yourself and extract that groove. Great feature.

I'm pretty sure you can extract grooves from both audio and midi clips in bitwig.
Its just that (as far as i know) there is no library (or "pool") of grooves that come with bitwig.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

Also Con

Bitwig instrument layers do not have as good vel/key split controls like Live racks. (No blend controls)

First one seems like a matter of opinion.

Wait until you unfold Zebra for the first time and there are hundreds of parameters with some having cryptic names... then you will add it to the list!

I see it differently. The custom organization comes with Bitwig's controller pages (or whatever they're called). The big massive list is a list that Live just doesn't have since it hides parameters by default over a certain amount. I think I remember someone saying that when you tweak a parameter it shows up on top. If so, then actually it's almost the same process in Bitwig but with more flexibility. Open up the controller pages, tweak a parameter to bring it up in the list (or search), then add to the controller page in the order you want. The other benefit is that you don't need to fill up all the slots, you can leave blanks for better organization. This is huge to me. And far outweighs the extra step of dragging over the parameter. The other obvious benefit being that you can still automate parameters outside the list that you've 'configured'.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Pros:
-Parameter pages and naming/arranging for every device (even built in ones)

Ok, can you explain this one to me so I know what I'm writing down, I was not paying attention when we went over it orginally. Is it just multiple pages of macro controls as opposed to ableton's eight controls on the one page?

In Live when you have hardware that automatically maps to selected devices, the order of parameters and what page they are on, depends on the parameter configuration. Groups of 8 on different pages. But you can't change the order of the parameters of built-in Live devices. And you also can't leave blanks to organize it better. In Bitwig there is a special setup for device parameters where you specify the order and pages for all the controls you want mapped by devices. I think you can even give the pages a name. Pretty cool for controllers with display, but generally great for organizing a hardware layout.

-32 bit and 64bit plug-ins

Ok, whats the whole deal with Live and Bitwig's plug support? Is it 64 and 32 bit plugs in the 64 bit versions or is it no 32 in the 64 bit version of Live or what?

Live has two version of the program - 32 bit and 64bit. Each uses only that type of plug-in. You need a third party bridge for others. I believe bitwig has an internal bridge allowing to load either.

-You can see the instruments and effects in mixer view (Ableton has a tweak for this but I think it has problems and isn't an official feature, unless things changed)

I dunno if this is significant enough, but maybe it's more important to others than to me.

I suppose it's opinion, but seeing all devices loaded at once is pretty useful.

-Arrangement view just looks better and more similar to other DAWs (yes I think this is important)

This strikes me as a matter of opinion and also something that you could easily tell from a screenshot so I think I might leave it off.

Yes total preference. Had to say it though.

-Drum Racks don't have their own sends

It seems you can still use sends for each individual drum pad, you are just sending to the main sends instead of setting up another set of sends within the drum rack, right? I actually much prefer it this way as long as it doesn't create an problems like making it convoluted to automate or map the control, which I'm guessing it doesn't. So I also think this is a matter of opinion so I'm going to leave it off.

Ya also a preference. In fact I don't really care that drum racks don't have their own return tracks. But some might. The good thing about it was that you could map send levels to macros of the specific pad, which is very useful with a hardware controller. Click the drum pad and access macros including sends of that pad. I'm not sure if Bitwig allows mapping pad sends to macros of that pad device, but I would be surprised if so. An absolutely handy feature in Live.

-The FM synth appears much more basic than operator
-Missing some cool effects like grain delay, corpus, amp etc.

As far as comparing fx capabilities I think that's opening a can a worms. Bitwig is missing some stuff that ableton has been then again it has some stuff that ableton doesn't such as the blur, transient control, drum synths, step mod, replacer, and a few others. I don't think when it comes to effects you can say one is superior to others so maybe the best thing to do is to just include a list of all the effects that come with each. I've already got a pdf with screenshots of all the bitwig effects that I can link to.

True you could get too into nitty gritty comparing devices. Each has cool things the other doesn't.

[hibidy]

Wait just a minute, nitty gritty? Nah, yer yankin' my chain!

[pdxindy]

I left that one out because I am not totally sure of that. There was an exchange a couple of pages back or so where Kennyda said there was groove quantize. I asked for some clarification as to whether that meant just shuffle or custom grooves and have not heard back. If any tester could confirm that would be good.

What was stated previously is that there is swing but no groove control

In Ableton, you can extract grooves, save them in the groove pool and apply them via percentage to any clips one wants. One can keep it non destructive or fix it to the notes. So you can play a part yourself and extract that groove. Great feature.

I'm pretty sure you can extract grooves from both audio and midi clips in bitwig.
Its just that (as far as i know) there is no library (or "pool") of grooves that come with bitwig.

a few months ago, there was no facility to extract or apply grooves. I have no heard anything suggesting the features has been added more recently.

Justin3am said one can use the snap to transient function to snap midi notes to audio to manually create the same groove.

[The Mantra]

Justin3am said one can use the snap to transient function to snap midi notes to audio to manually create the same groove.

Isn't that the same thing?

[pdxindy]

Justin3am said one can use the snap to transient function to snap midi notes to audio to manually create the same groove.

Isn't that the same thing?

no, not even close... that is like saying that Bitwig's histograms are no different than manually editing notes.

In Live, I can play a midi clip with my own groove, then select the clip and extract the groove, then it is saved to the groove pool and I can apply that same groove to other clips (including velocity if desired). When one applies the groove to a clip(s) one can choose the percentage (0-100%). I can do in a minute, something that would otherwise take an hour. And of course you can later just change the percentage or apply a different groove with a couple clicks. Besides being very slow and tedious, the snap to transient function is all or nothing. You have no percentage control.

[ThomasHelzle]

I consider it a con that Bitwig lists all the vst device parameters and does not have the option to just add the ones you want to automate like Live.

I hope they'll add an option to show only those you automate - like Live has for clip envelopes.

There is a button to show only automated parameters.

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

I personally would also make a difference between Live and Live Suite.
Bitwig 1.0 is closer to Live without Suite.

As for included synths and effects: nowadays I personally find that of limited importance. It's great if the included stuff is good, but to be flexible, I use mostly VSTs anyway to be able to recreate effect-chains/sounds in whatever host.

As for cryptic/similar parameter names: yeah, u-he is quite guilty of that

But if you move a VST parameter and have the automation lane visible in Bitwig, it shows that last toggled/changed parameter. So it's not a big deal to find the correct ones.
And in the list, you see the parameters moving when you change them in the VST GUI.

- Pro:
- Each and every device has 8 macro controls in BWS, not only groups.

- Extreme flexibility in device arrangement: Put an EQ VST (AudioFX) -> Midi-Bass VST (Bass to Midi "Instrument") -> Chromaphone VST (Instrument) on an Audio Track and it actually works as expected, converting the EQed Bass input to midi playing Chromaphone...

- Con:
- Midi routing between tracks doesn't exist yet (Beta 11.5).

Cheers,

Tom