The Yamaha EZ-EG Guitar Midi Controller Thread

[birgerg]

Hi Marc,

thanks again - if I have more time, I will look also into this
script programming stuff - or is there some documentation ? ...
This week I have some more things to do, but anyway - I let you know, how this works for me.

- Birger

[ugo]

i finally started to check out this thread (im only about 10 pages in) and im really intrigued. i've got a few questions but first let me explain where im coming from.

i've had a yamaha G50+B1D midi bass setup for a long time now and i have never been able to get things set to a tolerable working level. i've tweaked the G50, the pickup, and my bass as best i can, and i've made a big point of being clean with my playing, but the mistriggers, pitch glitches, and latency are just too much for my patience. sure i can clean up the sequences, but that much glitching takes the fun out of playing with it for me.

now that terratec has dropped the price of the axon AX100 (and there's an updated version on the way) i've thought about stepping up to one of those. although yamaha licenses their technology from axon, the AX100 is supposed to be a more advanced system. however, bass has always been infamously difficult to convert to midi, so im not convinced that the axon will be a dramatic improvement over the yamaha.

over the past few days, i've been looking into a used peavey midibase. (on ebay.) that one used fret triggers to improve the pitch tracking. however, i've read that it still suffers from sizable latency and it requires major changes to your playing style. like you cant let your plucking fingers hit the string below. (not easy for a bassist.) im also concerned that the action will have to be super high in order to avoid all possible string buzz. i figure if an electrical connection is made when a string touches a fret, then any fret buzz could potentially cause big pitch glitches. (this is one thing audio-to-midi setups are surprisingly forgiving with.) so if the neck warps or a fret pulls up (or wears down), the action will probably have to go up a lot.

so...this brings me to the EZ-EG/AG.

im a really crappy guitar player, but im a far worse keyboard player...and since they dont make an EZ-Bass, this is as close as im going to get.

a friend of mine has very few problems with his G50 but he uses it with guitar. so if my alternate midi controller is to be in the form of a guitar, i could just get a roland or yamaha midi guitar pickup, but those cost nearly as much as an EZ.

since the EZ is pretty much a midi keyboard, it looks like it should be clear of pitch glitches and latency...and judging by the few videos i saw early in this thread, it looks like it triggers pretty damn well.

so to those of you who have used various pitch to midi systems before...do you use them anymore or has the EZ won you over? how free is the EZ of the bullshit that normal is associated with the pitch to midi systems?

whats the playing experience like? is it guitar-like at all or is it really more like playing a keyboard in the shape of a guitar?

thanks for the info
-ugo

edit - a while later: ok...i've tweaked the G50 and my bass setup once again, as well as changed the placement of my makeshift string mute. this has helped further minimize the glitching, but its also required me to further minimize the dynamic range of my input to its least flexible settings.

i still havent tried flatwounds either. i suspect that will help too. man, the setup changes even slightly and everything goes to hell. i suspect some of you here probably have experianced some similar frustrations with pitch-to-midi. hmmm...is the EZ really easy?

[CapnLockheed]

Hi ugo, yeah the ez is a whole different ball
game from guitar based pitch2midi systems.
I've tried the Yamaha and Roland systems,
Shadow GT6&SH075 as well as the Casio midi guitars,(the real ones....not that plastic DG20 nonsense),
and I have'nt been too happy with any of them.
The ez isn't a guitar and it takes some getting
used to but IMHO it's totally worth it. The
zero latency alone makes it worth the price
of admission.

At first I was'nt totally bowled
over but after playing it for a while and
creating combi patches in Chainer I'm quite
happy with it. It's neither a guitar or a
keyboard but it's become a great addition to
my arsenal live and in the studio.

The reports
are that the ag is better for fingerpicking
than the eg so as a bassist that might be the
way to go.

Cheers.....CL

[ugo]

thanks for the reply CL.

i decided to pass on that peavey midibase. as curious as i am about the fret triggers, i get the feeling that i'd just be trading one set of glitches for another. i got the G50 system used, and got it long enough ago that i've certainly long since absorbed the cost. so perhaps what i'll do is get some flatwounds for one of my basses (fewer harmonics and overtones will hopefully cause fewer distractions for the G50) and get an EZ-AG to experiment with and use them both to their strengths. if i find i really dig the EZ a lot more, then i'll sell the G50.

-ugo

[manytone]

The thing about the EZ-AG is that they are pretty cheap so you can't really go wrong. I Love mine for the purpose of a different type of controller. Being a guitarist it is a natural but a bit different to get used to. Also controlling synths and other sounds has been a Blast with it.
I am very happy for the money spent.
Paul

[ugo]

i noticed zzounds says they have the AG in stock. they actually have two listings for it...one with the "survival kit" and the other without. curiously the price is the same for either one. ($200 including basic shipping.)

is that the average going price for one of these or are there better deals to be found?

also, whats included in that accessory kit?

edit: oh, just checked the yamaha site...the kit has the power supply. interesting that zzounds isnt charging more for that.

-ugo

[KLG]

I don't have any experience with other midi guitar systems, so I can't really compare, but the EZ guitars do have some glitches. To me, the main annoyance is the string triggers being too sensitive (at least on my EG). When picking a string, adjacent strings will easily be triggered, I have to disable open strings all the time for this reason. Also, when picking a string hard, the single picking will be translated into a series of note-on/note-off messages, which will cause clicks and pops in some synths.

Other than these, the EZ-EG is a perfect solution for me.

[ugo]

When picking a string, adjacent strings will easily be triggered, I have to disable open strings all the time for this reason.

i can see how that would be a drag...thank god there's at least the option to disable the open strings.

Also, when picking a string hard, the single picking will be translated into a series of note-on/note-off messages, which will cause clicks and pops in some synths.

out of curiosity, how hard is hard? like a particularly hard hit or something that would have been considered a moderate hit on anything else?

-ugo

[ugo]

oh and by the way...after having now gone through the whole thread...

back in march shane was wondering about strumming midi controllers and found the digitar. there was another one, the oberheim strummer.

-ugo

[KLG]

thank god there's at least the option to disable the open strings.

You should thank Markleford and Marc instead , their applications had added a lot flexibility to the EZ Guitars.

out of curiosity, how hard is hard? like a particularly hard hit or something that would have been considered a moderate hit on anything else?

Hard enough to generate a note with velocity above 110.

[AndrewSimon]

whats the playing experience like? is it guitar-like at all or is it really more like playing a keyboard in the shape of a guitar?

UGO the EZ-AG is great but it has it's limitations.
It's definitely a keeper but don't get your hopes too high.
It is a good way for a guitar player to input some midi but I won't be comfortable to play it live in front of an audiance.

If you can afford the real deal look into a ztar.

http://www.starrlabs.com/

If you can't afford it, EZ-AG is your best alternative.

[ugo]

UGO the EZ-AG is great but it has it's limitations.
It's definitely a keeper but don't get your hopes too high.

i wish i could try one first but i dont think any shops around me carry it either. however, $200 for a midi controller is not that big of a deal, all things considered.

after the frustrating slop of my midi bass attemps, im both itching for something that works easier/better and a bit fearfull (for lack of a better word) of simply trading one set of fun-killing glitches for another.

It is a good way for a guitar player to input some midi but I won't be comfortable to play it live in front of an audiance.

live is not an issue for me since im lucky if i take a gig once ever 5 years or so. however, when i play an instrument i like to be able to play it, not fight it and then have to do lots of clean up work afterwards. it seems a lot of midi bass/guitar guys are ok with that, but it gets on my nerves.

If you can afford the real deal look into a ztar.

http://www.starrlabs.com/

on a similar note (no pun intended), these are pretty damn cool too: http://www.zendrum.com/ a shop i used to work for briefly sold them when they first started to hit the scene. (back when they actually had dealers.) they worked great and were lots of fun to use.

-ugo

[addycatch]

Sounds cool, but since I just got myself a Casio DG20 off ebay, I'll be sticking with that for a while...

Hi

Just wondering if you cd tell me the price you paid for the DG20. I know someone who may have one to sell.

Thanks so much

A

[birgerg]

Hi Marc,

I tried you new trigger.default script. So far I was able to start something
from one fret and to stop all note from the 12th fret /6th string ... It was a short
test, but I think there were some missing notes when I played together with this loop in
the background. I think I have to look again on this to find out what really happens, because
I'm not sure if all settings in the ez_ag_3.hta were the same.
Thanks,
Birger

[ugo]

i actually got to try an EZ-AG today!

i stopped into a local shop that normally doesnt have anything im looking for, but i drop by anyway sometimes. today i was looking for some good quality 6 string bass strings...which, of course, they dont stock. but low and behold, they had an EZ-AG in a stand on the counter.

i gave it a shot for a few minutes, just playing the built in sounds and fingerpicking. holy crap...i must have one of these. i totally see how this could be a great little midi controller and the strings, though loose, were fine for fingerpicking. it felt like a breath of fresh air compared to the fighting i've been doing with the G50.

that twistable neck is kind of freaky though. like others have mentioned, i wonder what it would take to at least build a stable wood back on to it, just for added support. the neck is thin enough that there's plenty of room to add some meat and still retain comfort.

the only reason i didnt buy it on the spot was because they were asking $250 (plus tax) for a floor model with no paperwork.

im definitely going to order one of these things.

-ugo