Korg multi/poly native - reimagined Mono/Poly Synthesizer plugin

[vitocorleone123]

Even after 3 years, I'm still fixing stuff on newer Windows 10 machine. It's bloatware, full of ridiculous bugs. 11 is even worse, only stripped down versions make sense.

Btw, you have some magic button which installs & sets up all programs you use, in one click?

On my current PC I started building it on a Friday evening. Finished on a Saturday Morning. Took a break, had lunch, did a clean install of Windows 11 in the afternoon and then optimized the system removing and turning off junk that was not needed. Took another break watched a football game, ate some dinner. Came back to it and installed Cubase along with all the extras that come with that and went to bed

On Sunday morning I downloaded and installed all the relevant plugins I planned on migrating over to the new PC, along with Studio One, Acid Pro, and Protools, My sample library is on an attached NAS drive on my network. So copying those over was fast and easy

By that afternoon I was fully up and running with everything exactly like I wanted it in less than 48 hours. Keep in mind while I was doing all that I was also doing things on my other computers and this time includes actually building the PC

If I did not have a weekend to dedicate to this, I could have easily done it all over the course of a week or so spending a few hours in the evenings

I have a direct fiber connection to my house that is blazing fast, I can download just as a fast as the server on the other end allows

that helps quite a bit also but even with a slower connection it wouldn't take that much longer

It's really not that hard and just takes a tiny bit of planning

Even if all you do is follow the advice at this link which shouldn't take very long

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar ... recording/

You should be well ahead of the game

I think that's waaaay too optimistic.
After a couple of weeks, you realize you need a different version of driver.
Some settings don't work as expected.
Known app behaves differently. Troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot.
In worst case, there's a faulty component...
Or even worse, it's not 100% faulty but 50%.

I don't need that sh***

I simply backed up an image of my old Windows 11 drive to my NAS and then restored it "bare metal" to the new drive in the new computer using Macrium Home. Reinstalled a couple plugins/re-authorized a few plugins. Got on with my day.

I barely need to spend time tweaking a computer except after major things happen. And then it's pretty much done. I've never spent 3 years. That tells me something is broken/beyond your means to fix either due to hardware issues or knowledge. And it isn't the OS.

Installing 24H2 caused me more problems than transferring my system to a new computer. That took some hours to get the performance back.

[D-Fusion]

Even after 3 years, I'm still fixing stuff on newer Windows 10 machine. It's bloatware, full of ridiculous bugs. 11 is even worse, only stripped down versions make sense.

Btw, you have some magic button which installs & sets up all programs you use, in one click?

On my current PC I started building it on a Friday evening. Finished on a Saturday Morning. Took a break, had lunch, did a clean install of Windows 11 in the afternoon and then optimized the system removing and turning off junk that was not needed. Took another break watched a football game, ate some dinner. Came back to it and installed Cubase along with all the extras that come with that and went to bed

On Sunday morning I downloaded and installed all the relevant plugins I planned on migrating over to the new PC, along with Studio One, Acid Pro, and Protools, My sample library is on an attached NAS drive on my network. So copying those over was fast and easy

By that afternoon I was fully up and running with everything exactly like I wanted it in less than 48 hours. Keep in mind while I was doing all that I was also doing things on my other computers and this time includes actually building the PC

If I did not have a weekend to dedicate to this, I could have easily done it all over the course of a week or so spending a few hours in the evenings

I have a direct fiber connection to my house that is blazing fast, I can download just as a fast as the server on the other end allows

that helps quite a bit also but even with a slower connection it wouldn't take that much longer

It's really not that hard and just takes a tiny bit of planning

Even if all you do is follow the advice at this link which shouldn't take very long

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar ... recording/

You should be well ahead of the game

I think that's waaaay too optimistic.
After a couple of weeks, you realize you need a different version of driver.
Some settings don't work as expected.
Known app behaves differently. Troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot.
In worst case, there's a faulty component...
Or even worse, it's not 100% faulty but 50%.

I don't need that sh***

I simply backed up an image of my old Windows 11 drive to my NAS and then restored it "bare metal" to the new drive in the new computer using Macrium Home. Reinstalled a couple plugins/re-authorized a few plugins. Got on with my day.

I barely need to spend time tweaking a computer except after major things happen. And then it's pretty much done. I've never spent 3 years. That tells me something is broken/beyond your means to fix either due to hardware issues or knowledge. And it isn't the OS.

Installing 24H2 caused me more problems than transferring my system to a new computer. That took some hours to get the performance back.

I agree.
Sray away from win 11 24h2 update.

It broke all my usb products that use windows own drivers and it also did something to my graphic card that made certain programs useless.

Can't believe that microsoft knew about this issues and relessed that update anyway without fixing them.

I haven't had any issues with windows for decades since windows ME and vista.

Windows 2000 was the best windows version for me and on second place is windows 11 23h2.

[frag]

I simply backed up an image of my old Windows 11 drive to my NAS and then restored it "bare metal" to the new drive in the new computer using Macrium Home. Reinstalled a couple plugins/re-authorized a few plugins. Got on with my day.

That is a very interesting idea.
But that's Win11 on both machines? And what about drivers?
It's impossible to boot Win7 image on a brand-new Z890 motherboard, for example.
There's a trick with virtualization though - it's possible to run old system on new PC and see all your settings and installed programs.
Then you reconstruct anything you need.
It's still complicated and time consuming...

[vitocorleone123]

I simply backed up an image of my old Windows 11 drive to my NAS and then restored it "bare metal" to the new drive in the new computer using Macrium Home. Reinstalled a couple plugins/re-authorized a few plugins. Got on with my day.

That is a very interesting idea.
But that's Win11 on both machines? And what about drivers?
It's impossible to boot Win7 image on a brand-new Z890 motherboard, for example.
There's a trick with virtualization though - it's possible to run old system on new PC and see all your settings and installed programs.
Then you reconstruct anything you need.
It's still complicated and time consuming...

Yes, it was a transplant of Win11. I just uninstalled the old drivers and installed the new ones as needed. Of course it's taking a chance, but the potential time savings was worth it. Worst case was that I'd have to install Win11 as normal. This wasn't complicated or time consuming.

[jdoo]

xpost from GS - Is it possible to copy a destination in the Modulation List to another destination? Specifically.. I am setting up Osc 1 Tune to Pitch LFO with a source of Aftertouch (vibrato). Good so far... but a PITA to have to do this across all the used Oscillators in every patch I would like to add aftertouch Vibrato to. Sticking this in a template... done. But, retrofitting vibrato aftertouch to patches that dont already have that... PITA.

Or..? Am I tackling this the wrong way? Is there an easy way to implement Vibrato aftertouch to an existing patch? Note: I actually have a default setting on my controller which maps it's aftertouch to CC:1... Sorry for the wine... Any push in the right direction mucho appreciato!

Oh... Im doing this in Multi/Poly Native...

Joe

--- update ---
Thanks to Dan Phillips / Korg ... for leaning in. What I was trying to do was simple.. Dunno how i missed this! LFO in Pitch section was what I was looking for. Dan had other suggested approaches too, in his post. https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph ... count=2012

[tumface]

I guess I'm going to end up passing on this for now. I love the way it sounds overall, and the features are great, but the weird attack clicking unless delay is added to the amp envelope (mentioned in my last few posts) spoils it for many of the cases I would have used it for. They haven't patched it yet, but I have a hard time believing it's intended, when it really looks like an error both in a spectrogram and in a scope. It's so strange. Oh well. Hmm

edit: I went through the Korg App support team this time when sending this as a bug report, and I think this one will get through to Dan. Let's see!

edit 2: fixed in multi/poly native 1.0.4!

[Gam456]

Is it me, or even the mini filter isn't self resonant?

[EvilDragon]

It is.

[EvilDragon]

I guess I'm going to end up passing on this. I love the way it sounds overall, and the features are great, but the weird attack clicking unless delay is added to the amp envelope (mentioned in my last few posts) spoils it for many of the cases I would have used it for. They haven't patched it yet, but I have a hard time believing it's intended, when it really looks like an error both in a spectrogram and in a scope. It's so strange. Oh well.

I really think this is normal considering the attack time is superfast (1 ms, which is practically faster than almost any analog synth ever made) and there's no key reset on oscillators.

Also, did you try disabling Single Trigger when you're in Poly mode? If that is enabled, m/p will reuse the same voice when you play the same key, which might potentially result in a click.

I would also attempt to reduce the Env knob in Drift & Voice Variation section. If you're in poly mode and not every note is getting the click, voice variation on envelopes would very likely explain this.

Also, contacting Korg support is probably better than hoping Dan Phillips will see your post among many others.

[Gam456]

It is.

Yes my bad. I was doing something wrong.

[mixyguy2]

You want Korg emulations, check out Full Bucket synths (free)

[BBFG#]

Really like this plugin, but can wait until the 50% off sale (or better when someone with the hardware decides to let it go cheaper.)

[tumface]

I guess I'm going to end up passing on this. I love the way it sounds overall, and the features are great, but the weird attack clicking unless delay is added to the amp envelope (mentioned in my last few posts) spoils it for many of the cases I would have used it for. They haven't patched it yet, but I have a hard time believing it's intended, when it really looks like an error both in a spectrogram and in a scope. It's so strange. Oh well.

I really think this is normal considering the attack time is superfast (1 ms, which is practically faster than almost any analog synth ever made) and there's no key reset on oscillators.

If you look at this post viewtopic.php?p=9059112#p9059112 you can see where I show an actual fast attack envelope triggering in multi/poly native and the effect it has on the shape of the waveform, vs. the weird clicks that appear which do not follow that pattern. Also, if this was a superfast attack envelope, then adjusting the amp envelope initial delay shouldn't get rid of it. Or even weirder, switching between poly and mono and back (back to the original mode, without playing any notes) causes the click to not happen for exactly 1 note. (And it's not resetting the phase of the osc, no.) Which wouldn't be explained by just a fast attack envelope.

If you have some explanation for these behaviors, and especially how it's a digital hard-edge click, I'm definitely open to it. But "it's a fast envelope" doesn't appear to be what's going on here.

Also, did you try disabling Single Trigger when you're in Poly mode? If that is enabled, m/p will reuse the same voice when you play the same key, which might potentially result in a click.

Toggling this option makes the click not happen for several notes played, but then it comes back again. It seems to be the number of notes chosen as max polyphony for that layer (up to 8.) It seems like it starts when voices start to be reused after the option has been changed. (It's not from the oscillator phase. The osc phase isn't being reset.)

I would also attempt to reduce the Env knob in Drift & Voice Variation section. If you're in poly mode and not every note is getting the click, voice variation on envelopes would very likely explain this.

I tried that a while ago, and that's not it. Disabling these or adjusting it doesn't affect it. The clicks don't follow the behavior of something that oscillator phase or tuning drift would affect. You can see in the screenshots I posted earlier what I'm talking about.

Also, contacting Korg support is probably better than hoping Dan Phillips will see your post among many others.

I did that, including PM'ing Dan here on KVR, but didn't get any response.

If this really is the intended behavior, then I don't really want to use this plugin. If I were to use it as-is, the first thing I'd do in every patch is add 0.5 ms to the amp envelope delay time, and then have to compensate for that in the rest of the knobs when building patches, and in the DAW sequence data. Which just isn't worth it.

edit: I went through the Korg App support team this time when sending this as a bug report, and I think this one will get through to Dan. Let's see! (Also appended this edit to an earlier post.)

edit 2: fixed in multi/poly native 1.0.4!

[EvilDragon]

I'm trying that Air Drops patch and I'll be damned if I'm hearing any overbearing clicks over here (with latest 1.0.3). If I'm hearing some, it's not beyond what I would expect on an analog synth, or even a hybrid like my Microwave I over here (which has stupid fast clicky envelopes you have to tame).

Here's a render of some noodling across octaves. I am not hearing anything off-putting, even in low octaves.

https://app.box.com/s/ldeon4v9bfwmt65h4v1a2wlah1jto728

[tumface]

I'm trying that Air Drops patch and I'll be damned if I'm hearing any overbearing clicks over here (with latest 1.0.3). If I'm hearing some, it's not beyond what I would expect on an analog synth, or even a hybrid like my Microwave I over here (which has stupid fast clicky envelopes you have to tame).

Here's a render of some noodling across octaves. I am not hearing anything off-putting, even in low octaves.

https://app.box.com/s/ldeon4v9bfwmt65h4v1a2wlah1jto728

Awesome. Thank you for going out of your way to try this out for me. I really do appreciate the effort.

I do indeed hear a few weird clicks in that one. The first one is at 07:274, in the left channel.

Acoustica_LR57UeJkZa.png

I think you can see this one looks like an outlier. The frequency response extends upwards much further than the others.

Acoustica_oPUDOT4c9s.png

It looks like this in a waveform view. This rate-of-change discontinuity doesn't seem like it should be there. Most of the other attacks/pops don't look like this. Also, it's always exactly 16 samples long. I'm guessing that's the internal block size that multi/poly native uses for envelope modulation interpolation.

edit from the future: fixed in multi/poly native 1.0.4!