IK/SR VI HOT BUY - GROUP BUY on eSoundz!!! SampleTank Instruments for $99 + more!

[osidenick]

I bought Miroslav Classik on the recent no-brainer. I'm curious about what I'm missing by not having the full version. I've done enough research to know the basics: a lot less sounds (mainly in terms of different articulations?) and no combi presets. I'm sure upgrading makes a lot of sense for some, but not as important for others. I tried the demo version in hopes of exploring different articulations and combis, but it has way less than Classik. I've also seen all the IK you-tube tutorials (which sold me on Classik in the first place).
Since I can't experience the different articulations and combis, are there any additional resources I've missed that show these features? I loved the training videos for the combis and articulations, but I wished they had broken down each individual articulation (maybe I just need to google each articulation to hear what they are). Are there any resources for combis in Classik? If I had hands-on access to the full version, it might convince me to buy it, but instead I'm relying on research and any advice you guys might offer.
BTW, the tutorials in this thread so far have been great. I'm a definite noob, but it seems Sampletank is a great workflow for quickly layering and auditioning sounds.

Thanks,
osidenick (here and on esoundz)

[Squids]

I'm the one who did the video tutorials. Yes, you get more sounds and additional articulations. I think if you love the Miroslav that you have then getting more makes a lot of sense at this price. I checked to see if this was going to be extended and it's not so there's less than 2 weeks left and that's it. Hopefully some objective opinions will be shared that might help. In my semi-biased opinion, I wouldn't personally want to be without the full version as there are situations where I want to try out different sounds and the more variety I have the better. More to layer together as well. Keep in mind that the full version of Miroslav Philharmonik was originally a hot seller when it had an MSRP of $599 so to get it for less than a hundred bucks now is also a no-brainer in my opinion.

Plus, we're offering $15 in epointz toward something else for anyone who can prove they have Miroslav CE (that's for people who got it recently or even before). Just a gesture of kindness to help make the decision easier. But only get it if you love those kinds of sounds I'd say. Beautiful orchestral and choir sounds.

[Rainman]

One particular thing which nobody has yet touched in terms of Free sounds is Guitars ! Both Acoustic and electric......

I am a keyboardist.....so I am always after realistic Guitar samples...So has anybody tried SR's Guitar samplTank Expansions ? both Acoustic and electric ? Are they worth spending the 2 'Bonus' product coupons ?

Torgo, what do you have to say about Guitar Expansions ?

Thanks !

Well, I'm not Torgo, but I'll take a crack at your question and then he can chime in next time he's here. (We need a bump back to the first page anyway.)

I have both of the Xpansions from last year's group buy. I'm a guitar player, so I don't use them a whole lot, but I bought them to use in places where I want some kind of a melodic line that I can't play myself (I'm definitely more of a rhythm player than a lead guitar player - no Eddie van Halen solos here!). You get a lot of variety in the kinds of sounds offered, and if you're skilled at programming your parts in the SampleTank interface (something I'm still working on) you can get some nice sounds through layering different guitars together on the same channel. The electric guitar libraries respond really well to the built-in effects, as well as running them through amp sims like Amplitube and Guitar Rig.

I can add to this, I'm a guitar player and I actually use them more than I thought I would. When I just want a root and 5th I can generally find a sound I like in "Guitars" I'll use it (cause sometimes I'm lazy and it works great) for just vamping on the beat, sometimes with a 6th and 7th for rock/blues feel. I also like to use it for arpeggios (cause sometimes I'm lazy, it sounds great) for backing lines or counterpoint to what I've laid down on a real guitar, electric or acoustic. For the Eddie tracks I just call Eddie, hah yeah I wish, but usually can fake a pretty good solo on my own or get a buddy. The main thing is to know the chordal structure and inversions played on a guitar or it totally sounds faked. A guitar chord book or online thingy is invaluable for this.

Rainman

[torgo]

I don't have the CE version of Miroslav, so offhand I don't know how much you're missing. But the most recent review here on KVR was by a user who has both. It might help:

http://www.kvraudio.com/user_review/1514.html


If I were in your position, here's how I'd play it:

(1) I'd play around with Miroslav CE as much as possible over the next couple of days and decide if I like it enough to want an expanded version of it at a steep discount.

The general quality of what you have in CE is identical to the general quality of the full package. The full deal has more sounds, a wider variety of sounds, and the pre-made Combis (plus more Combis available for free on the esoundz web site) - all at the same general quality.

So if I didn't care for the sounds, getting the full package wouldn't help. But if I decided I liked the sounds in CE, upgrading would definitely be something to consider - and this deal would be a great opportunity to get that upgrade on the cheap.



(2) I'd look hard at the list of sound libraries offered as bonus selections. Those are what really make or break this deal.

If I had no interest at all in the extra libraries, I'd pass and wait for another upgrade opportunity. But if I found at least two of them that I wanted, then I'd go ahead and upgrade through the group buy.

(And if I decided I wanted some of those sound libraries but didn't like Miroslav CE enough to upgrade, I'd look hard at Sonik Synth, SampleTron or SampleMoog instead.)



Assuming we do hit the 3 bonus choice level, the total package deal would be the upgrade to the full version of Miroslav, two bonus libraries, your choice of the extra Miroslav outtakes library or a third library from the list, plus a 15-epointz rebate for already owning CE. (And another small additional kicker that should be noted: IK Multimedia is donating $5 to Japan earthquake relief efforts for every sale of the five instruments in May.)

I'd call that a no-brainer for $99, but *only* if the bonus libraries really turned me on.

(The epointz rebate brings the net price to $84. That's roughly the normal cost of the two bonus libraries. So for the price of those libraries, you're also getting the Miroslav upgrade as a freebie. If you want the libraries, getting in on this deal is a pretty obvious move.)

If I had no interest at all in the extra libraries, then it would be a much tougher decision.

So check the list (it's on page 1 of this thread) and see what you think. And ask questions you might have about any of those bonus selections.



Also, hang on to one of your bonus choices for a while. Use one right away if you like, but save the other one. The Miroslav Outtakes library isn't quite ready yet, so you'll need to hang on to one of your bonus choices to make sure you get it - just in case we don't hit 300 and end up with only two selections.

(The Miroslav Outtakes won't be offered for sale individually. At least for now, the only way to get it will be with one of your group buy bonus selections. The other libraries are all available anytime, so Miroslav Outtakes is almost automatic as one of your bonus choices. You wouldn't want to use up both your choices and end up missing out on the extra Miroslav sounds if the Group Buy falls short of 300. The other libraries are all available anytime and can even be purchased with epointz.)


-torgo (esoundz = bhall1968)

[Breeze]

I'm the guy that posted that MPO review. I just want to add that I certainly don't regret getting the full version for $99 (I still haven't contacted Allen for my epointz deal on CE...). There's quite a few treasures in there that aren't in CE, and doubling MPO's ensembles with my other libraries makes for some great instant gratification.

I pretty well stand by my review. If you already write orchestrations for a full orchestra, you'll definitely miss the extra nuances available in the full version and regardless, you will sometimes find the built-in expressiveness of some samples limiting. If you're a beginner, and especially if you're only learning for fun or out of curiosity, you will get plenty of mileage out of CE. But for $99, I found it hard to resist having access to a library that I could only appreciate over 10 years ago. The sound is dated and somewhat muted compared to more recent libraries, no question, but it's still very sweet sounding and musical.

I'm very curious to see what could possibly be left at the bottom of the MPO barrel! I was under the impression that this version already included material that wasn't in the original Miroslav release.

As for bonus sample libs, so far I went for the Acoustic Guitars, waiting for the MPO extras release; and I also got the Electric Guitars cheap on last weekend's sale. While I don't find them groundbreaking (they're quite 2 dimensional; no round-robin, limited if any velocity layers) I'm quite satisfied with them because I was looking for a variety of smaller quick loading guitar sounds to throw ideas together with. Some are good out of the box, but I find most need some massaging to sweeten them up. I'd say the Electric lib is more convincing, probably because electric guitars are more compressed and artificial by nature. But in any case, I certainly can't complain about the price! Good bang for the buck.

[torgo]

Hi Breeze! Thanks for the added input!


As a side note, you mentioned in your review that Miroslav Philharmonik sounds "almost as if [it] was crafted by a musician" while other libraries lack that musicality.

You and others might be interested to know that yes, it was indeed crafted by a musician.

"Miroslav" is Miroslav Vitous, a classically trained bass player best known for his part in the jazz band Weather Report and his collaborations over the years with Chick Corea and other musicians.

He wanted a good sample library to help him with his own composing, but he didn't like anything available on the market at the time. So he hired the orchestra and the concert hall, and he recorded his own. He directed the sessions himself (and was reported to be a rather demanding conductor), recording each musician in the orchestra individually.

He often noted that it was extremely expensive to do, but said it was worthwhile because it helped him compose. He wrote the music for his "Universal Syncopations" album using his new sample library as a composing tool.


Here's a review of the sample library in its earlier days of commercial availability:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan00/a ... v_orch.htm

Note the price for the five-disc set: 3095 pounds (over $4500).

The library may be around 12 years old now, but for $99 and in a ready to use tool - it's mind-blowing how good a deal it is.

And yes, the IK/SR instrument already has sounds that weren't included in that original sample library. The outtakes library will add even more sounds from his recording sessions to the set. I'm eager to hear those sounds too.


-torgo (esoundz = bhall1968)

[subtlearts]

If you have Sonik Synth, you can make a *GREAT* pop brass section by throwing 016 Wet Brass, 019 Trumpet Solo, and 020 Trumpet 2 together on the same MIDI channel.

The combination takes up three Parts, but the three sounds use a combined total of just 9 meg of RAM. It's light on the system resources, and it's killer for playing chords as horn stabs.

Sweet! Will try that later.

Squids - no worries on the $10 off coupon not working, makes sense. I thought it was crazy enough that the Cinco de Mayo coupon worked. If I have a windfall before the end of the month I might still consider Miroslav - although, I already have the choirs as a refill from a previous purchase, and the Kontakt orchestral set usually fills my needs. Still, variety is the spice of life. Or was that anxiety? Certainly not sobriety, in any case.

edit - I don't suppose the $15 esoundz credit offer could be extended to someone who already has a big chunk of the full version - such as, say, the choirs refill?...

[Krabat]

That's out-dated info, the $10 coupon. Also shouldn't work with the current promo.

Hi squids,
Thanks for putting this right - I have deleted my earlier post to avoid missunderstandings.

Regards, Gunnar
--
esoundz: Krabat

[subtlearts]

That's out-dated info, the $10 coupon. Also shouldn't work with the current promo.

Hi squids,
Thanks for putting this right - I have deleted my earlier post to avoid missunderstandings.

... and I followed suit...

[Krabat]

BTW, since the process is fully automated, I decided to also run it on the Miroslav Philharmonic Tips and Tricks thread that that was mentioned earlier. So I now have a single web page and 29 page PDF for that thread as well, just in case anyone is interested in that topic also.

Hi dmorrill,

Me, I'm interested in both. And I like to bump your great offer for all the others...

Thanks, Gunnar
--
esoundz: Krabat

[Reverend Rhythm]

Plus, we're offering $15 in epointz toward something else for anyone who can prove they have Miroslav CE (that's for people who got it recently or even before). Just a gesture of kindness to help make the decision easier. But only get it if you love those kinds of sounds I'd say. Beautiful orchestral and choir sounds.

This makes the full Miro a no brainer for sure!

[Xenobt]

ALERT! ALERT! ALERT!
Musician's Friend has SampleTron as their Stupid Deal of the Day today... $49! This daily promotion is worth watching, I've seen some GREAT software for as little as $15.00!

Been away working for a few days, good to see more instrument combos, torgo, I'll be trying that horn stack tonight! It's an underdeveloped spot in the ST libraries, so thanks for shoring it up!

Also, thanks to dmorrill for gathering all the thread tutorials and tips together, NICE!

As for the guitar libraries, I'm a guitarist first and foremost, and find the Electric collection REALLY nice for those big, tremolo-soaked surf/western baritone parts, and U2-style delayed picked rhythm parts. torgo is again on the money about checking the child patches, and using the GREAT Amplitube effects just as you would on a real instrument.

The only downside I find is some patches have amp noise sampled in, and as you play more notes, the hiss builds up in a way it wouldn't naturally.

The Acoustic collection is VERY clean and well done, with LOTs of multi samples and key switching, and as I mentioned earlier, make GREAT combinations with the electric guitars and acoustic/electric piano, especially on arpeggio parts. The performance noises, (squeaks, body thumps and damped string chuffs) can add AMAZING amounts of realism to your sampled guitar parts, try 'em!

The same is true for the Bass collection. All those performance sounds like slides, string noises and percussive pops/pulls have helped me actually fool session bass players, and THAT'S saying something!

As rainman pointed out, voicings are key with these libraries, but that's true of all sampled instruments. The top end of most of the guitars don't sound very real, but with a little clever distribution of parts to several instruments strengths, they can sound quite natural.

Playing in the instruments true range, and thinking like the instruments player can help MUCH.
Keeping breath in mind when doing brass and woodwind parts, bowing techniques when doing strings, and the strums and picking or fingering of other stringed instruments, or how many drums can actually be played at once will make you better as an arranger AND make your mixes sound more real.

And thanks for the $15 MPO discount, Squids! Which version came with the 5x1 VI group buy last year? How big should the folder be, and what should I look for to see if I have the full version already?

Since we haven't had one in a bit, name the quote: "Been away, but now I'm back..."

[ObiWonder]

ALERT! ALERT! ALERT!
Musician's Friend has SampleTron as their Stupid Deal of the Day today... $49! This daily promotion is worth watching, I've seen some GREAT software for as little as $15.00!

Been away working for a few days, good to see more instrument combos, torgo, I'll be trying that horn stack tonight! It's an underdeveloped spot in the ST libraries, so thanks for shoring it up!

Also, thanks to dmorrill for gathering all the thread tutorials and tips together, NICE!

As for the guitar libraries, I'm a guitarist first and foremost, and find the Electric collection REALLY nice for those big, tremolo-soaked surf/western baritone parts, and U2-style delayed picked rhythm parts. torgo is again on the money about checking the child patches, and using the GREAT Amplitube effects just as you would on a real instrument.

The only downside I find is some patches have amp noise sampled in, and as you play more notes, the hiss builds up in a way it wouldn't naturally.

The Acoustic collection is VERY clean and well done, with LOTs of multi samples and key switching, and as I mentioned earlier, make GREAT combinations with the electric guitars and acoustic/electric piano, especially on arpeggio parts. The performance noises, (squeaks, body thumps and damped string chuffs) can add AMAZING amounts of realism to your sampled guitar parts, try 'em!

The same is true for the Bass collection. All those performance sounds like slides, string noises and percussive pops/pulls have helped me actually fool session bass players, and THAT'S saying something!

As rainman pointed out, voicings are key with these libraries, but that's true of all sampled instruments. The top end of most of the guitars don't sound very real, but with a little clever distribution of parts to several instruments strengths, they can sound quite natural.

Playing in the instruments true range, and thinking like the instruments player can help MUCH.
Keeping breath in mind when doing brass and woodwind parts, bowing techniques when doing strings, and the strums and picking or fingering of other stringed instruments, or how many drums can actually be played at once will make you better as an arranger AND make your mixes sound more real.

And thanks for the $15 MPO discount, Squids! Which version came with the 5x1 VI group buy last year? How big should the folder be, and what should I look for to see if I have the full version already?

Since we haven't had one in a bit, name the quote: "Been away, but now I'm back..."

Thanks for the heads up on that! Its a steal!

[torgo]

And thanks for the $15 MPO discount, Squids! Which version came with the 5x1 VI group buy last year? How big should the folder be, and what should I look for to see if I have the full version already?

If you got in on that group buy last year, you already have the full package. For that matter, you already have all five of the instruments featured in this group buy.



I already had all five, but I bought in on this deal anyway. I'll give the extra Sonik Synth serial to a relative as a gift, helping him set up an IK user account to register it.

I'm hoping Squids will come through with the other as-yet-unreleased sounds he teased when he started this thread - particularly the Mellotron stuff. If so, the purchase will prove to be worthwhile.

[subtlearts]

Hey yeah, there was mention of more tron rarities back there somewhere wasn't there? Hrmmm. Going to keep watching this space.

I'd be mildly bummed about the SampleTron SDOD if I hadn't already done slightly better than that with the CINCO15 -> Squids Tron / groupbuy freebie -> Sampletron exclusives combo. Got some epointz into the bargain. Still, a sweet deal but not necessarily any sweeter than this one if it goes to three freebies...