Bitwig VS Ableton

[xbitz]

What contours does Multiband FX - 2 have for adjusting the phase?

^^^ #fakenews "more or less it gives correct answers" can ignore that part

[perpetual3]

So to be clear, that claim is totally false, right? Multiband FX-2 does not “more or less” allow for phase correction. Simply put, it does not allow for phase correction. Or am I wrong? I really want to be wrong.

What contours does Multiband FX - 2 have for adjusting the phase?

^^^ #fakenews "more or less it gives correct answers" can ignore that part

[xbitz]

it's "just" a container device

Multiband FX-2
(Audio in, Audio out) A container that splits the incoming audio at a definable frequency and provides independent chains for the audio below and above that frequency.

Multiband FX-3
(Audio in, Audio out) A container that splits the incoming audio at two definable frequencies and provides independent chains for the audio below the first frequency, the audio between the two frequencies, and the audio above the second frequency.

- https://www.bitwig.com/userguide/latest/container/

[perpetual3]

Yeah that’s what I thought.

it's "just" a container device

Multiband FX-2
(Audio in, Audio out) A container that splits the incoming audio at a definable frequency and provides independent chains for the audio below and above that frequency.

Multiband FX-3
(Audio in, Audio out) A container that splits the incoming audio at two definable frequencies and provides independent chains for the audio below the first frequency, the audio between the two frequencies, and the audio above the second frequency.

- https://www.bitwig.com/userguide/latest/container/

[PieBerger]

What contours does Multiband FX - 2 have for adjusting the phase?

Can you elaborate on contours? Do you mean slope settings, for example in Saturn 2 and Pro-MB (IIRC) you can choose, 6/12/24/48 slope per crossover. Is this what you mean?

[billcarroll]

What contours does Multiband FX - 2 have for adjusting the phase?

Neither FX-2 or FX-3 on a channel or chain will null with a parallel channel or chain, as opposed to something like Ozone Imager splitting into 3 bands, which will null. This is similar to using EQ+ on a parallel channel or chain.

If you want to split frequencies avoiding phase issues introduced by the crossovers, you're better off duplicating Ozone Imager 3x in a FX Layer with 3 split bands, soloing L, M, and H respectively, and using those chains.

[xbitz]

I can remember there was a useful reply on this topic, yepp gotcha

Using a crossover/ filters always has some effect on the signal. There are basically two types of filters: minimal phase and linear phase filters. Linear phase filters are generally more transparent, but induce more latency and can cause pre-ringing, especially at lower frequency bands. Miniumum phase filters induce a frequency dependent phase shift and are therefore less transparent, but do not cause pre-ringing and latencies. For that reason the Multiband-FX containers in Bitwig use minimum phase filters. What can make them more less obvious or in an ideal scenario, use the phase cancellation as to attenuate ugly frequencies, is finding a good crossover frequency.

viewtopic.php?p=7044608#p7044608

[wilkins_micawber]

Anyone know if it's possible to use a CV outputting instrument easily on the same instrument channel as another midi instrument, while both are being controlled by the same midi in Live? Would like to use Gatekeeper as an MSEG in Live. Bitwig's handling of this keeps me from considering Live as an ancillary DAW. Neither have good MSEG's. Live comes closer with Max for live MSEGs. (but they're meh compared to Gatekeeper)

[billcarroll]

I can remember there was a useful reply on this topic, yepp gotcha

Using a crossover/ filters always has some effect on the signal. There are basically two types of filters: minimal phase and linear phase filters. Linear phase filters are generally more transparent, but induce more latency and can cause pre-ringing, especially at lower frequency bands. Miniumum phase filters induce a frequency dependent phase shift and are therefore less transparent, but do not cause pre-ringing and latencies. For that reason the Multiband-FX containers in Bitwig use minimum phase filters. What can make them more less obvious or in an ideal scenario, use the phase cancellation as to attenuate ugly frequencies, is finding a good crossover frequency.

viewtopic.php?p=7044608#p7044608

iZotope, does it with zero latency even in their free multi-band imager, and you can achieve a perfect null as I outlined above. I couldn’t believe more in the Bitwig team, and I am absolutely certain Bitwig is capable of creating crossover filters with zero latency that are as good as iZotope’s.

[Trancit]

nevermind...

[billcarroll]

I can remember there was a useful reply on this topic, yepp gotcha

Using a crossover/ filters always has some effect on the signal. There are basically two types of filters: minimal phase and linear phase filters. Linear phase filters are generally more transparent, but induce more latency and can cause pre-ringing, especially at lower frequency bands. Miniumum phase filters induce a frequency dependent phase shift and are therefore less transparent, but do not cause pre-ringing and latencies. For that reason the Multiband-FX containers in Bitwig use minimum phase filters. What can make them more less obvious or in an ideal scenario, use the phase cancellation as to attenuate ugly frequencies, is finding a good crossover frequency.

viewtopic.php?p=7044608#p7044608

iZotope, does it with zero latency even in their free multi-band imager, and you can achieve a perfect null as I outlined above. I couldn’t believe more in the Bitwig team, and I am absolutely certain Bitwig is capable of creating crossover filters with zero latency that are as good as iZotope’s.

OK, I lied. First iZotope Imager multiband is not free. Second they are not managing this with zero latency. At 48 kHz iZotope imager in multiband is running latency of 8 ms or 384 samples.

When I'm wrong I like to be completely wrong. Job well done.

[Trancit]

...
OK, I lied. First iZotope Imager multiband is not free. Second they are not managing this with zero latency. At 48 kHz iZotope imager in multiband is running latency of 8 ms or 384 samples.

When I'm wrong I like to be completely wrong. Job well done.

I agree that frequency splitting is regarded a tad to stepmotherly from nearly all companies...

Bitwig has just minimum phase options, so does Studio One´s "Splitter" or the JS options in Reaper...
and other solutions like Melda´s MXXX is for Melda plugins only...
Ableton,Steinberg do not have frequency splitters at all...

It´s quite astounishing that of all programms FL Studio is the one which has a splitter tool with minimum phase and linear phase band splitting and which can even be automated in linear phase mode...

Are there any 3rd party solutions especially dedicated for bandsplitting with i.e. multiple outputs for the seperate bands which have got linear phase options??

I don´t know if Bidule has linear filters or DDMF´s Meta...

Most of the time I am fine with minum phase but it´s always good to know about the alternatives...

[perpetual3]

Yes, there is a free VST/CLAP that offers 5 band linear phase band splitting called Crossover.

...
OK, I lied. First iZotope Imager multiband is not free. Second they are not managing this with zero latency. At 48 kHz iZotope imager in multiband is running latency of 8 ms or 384 samples.

When I'm wrong I like to be completely wrong. Job well done.

I agree that frequency splitting is regarded a tad to stepmotherly from nearly all companies...

Bitwig has just minimum phase options, so does Studio One´s "Splitter" or the JS options in Reaper...
and other solutions like Melda´s MXXX is for Melda plugins only...
Ableton,Steinberg do not have frequency splitters at all...

It´s quite astounishing that of all programms FL Studio is the one which has a splitter tool with minimum phase and linear phase band splitting and which can even be automated in linear phase mode...

Are there any 3rd party solutions especially dedicated for bandsplitting with i.e. multiple outputs for the seperate bands which have got linear phase options??

I don´t know if Bidule has linear filters or DDMF´s Meta...

Most of the time I am fine with minum phase but it´s always good to know about the alternatives...

[billcarroll]

Yes, there is a free VST/CLAP that offers 5 band linear phase band splitting called Crossover.

I've seen that over on Github.
https://github.com/robbert-vdh/nih-plug#plugins

Looks interesting with CLAP support. He has some interesting plugins, like "Puberty Simulator is that patent pending One Weird Plugin that simulates the male voice change during puberty!"

Anyway, have you tried Crossover?

Using 2-3 copies of Ozone Imager multiband in an FX Layer works pretty well for me. I usually don't need more than 2-3 bands.

[Trancit]

Yes, there is a free VST/CLAP that offers 5 band linear phase band splitting called Crossover.

Didn´t know about this!