FL Studio 12 Released!

[murnau]

Holy shitballs batman.

How do you even get this far not understanding how time signatures work.

It's amazing how adamant he is about being wrong too

Must be hard for you? Maybe you come so far in next life?

[murnau]

What we've learned is that BPM in a DAW is not the same as BPM in music notation. As far as I can tell, that's a fact Gol has acknowledged all along, and that's what all the rest has failed to understand he's acknowledging.

Changing the time signature in a DAW changes the grid and the metronome, but a quarter note is still as long as it was before as there are just as many in a minute as before.

I think we can also agree that no one really wants to do 7/8 notation on a 4/4 grid. So yes, it's a pain to work in FL if you want or need to compose in 7/8 or something else that's not 4/4.

Give it a f**king rest now.

Yep, that's it!

[elassi]

Give it a f**king rest now.

[CC4]

Well, in this case, FL's tempo handling doesn't go against the theory.
Where other sequencers assume a tempo in quarter notes, FL assumes a tempo in the current time signature.

Thus when you set FL to work in x/8 (steps per beat=2 in FL), then FL's tempo is to be read
♪ = x bpm
Correct?
Nothing wrong in assuming the current timesig instead of x/4, no?

I'm not sure exactly how to answer that. I think the conversation has less to do with tempo and more to do with composing a piece of music with the metronome and grid. In arguably a more interesting piece of music, the time signature can change midway through a piece of music. It actually kind of relates to spaceman's comment below:

I think we can also agree that no one really wants to do 7/8 notation on a 4/4 grid. So yes, it's a pain to work in FL if you want or need to compose in 7/8 or something else that's not 4/4.

spaceman, isn't that's the argument though? FL does so much else well that musicians are asking for it to be easier to create a composition with FL in different time signatures and to change time signature midway through a composition. On am I wrong?

I think that's the concept that needs more explanation. I'm trying to think of how to best explain that to tony tony chopper. Someone help me out here...

[CC4]

And the only thing I have "understood" about time signatures is that there was nothing to understand, only an illogical convention to know about.

Are you looking for an explanation as to why changing time signatures midway through a composition is useful?

[tony tony chopper]

Well, in this case, FL's tempo handling doesn't go against the theory.
Where other sequencers assume a tempo in quarter notes, FL assumes a tempo in the current time signature.

Thus when you set FL to work in x/8 (steps per beat=2 in FL), then FL's tempo is to be read
♪ = x bpm
Correct?
Nothing wrong in assuming the current timesig instead of x/4, no?

I'm not sure exactly how to answer that. I think the conversation has less to do with tempo and more to do with composing a piece of music with the metronome and grid.

Well, before supporting timesig changes, better support a constant timesig, no?

& I was told that FL couldn't do 7/8, because when you set the steps per beat to 2 and beats per bar to 7, "the tempo was wrong". Turns out it's not wrong, it's just expressed in /8 instead of /4 (right?)

Are you looking for an explanation as to why changing time signatures midway through a composition is useful?

I never argued that it wasn't useful, I say that it's so basic that I don't see why it has to be assisted (unless we're talking about software for children).

[Robert Randolph]

Wait, is tony tony chopper the Gol from the flstudio team?

Yeah.

How do you even get this far not understanding how time signatures work.

It's amazing how adamant he is about being wrong too

Believe it or not, it's not musicians who write software, it's programmers.

And the only thing I have "understood" about time signatures is that there was nothing to understand, only an illogical convention to know about.

I'm going to apologize for my previous comment.

It simply seems very odd for someone who has implemented this functionality to not be aware of its origins or intended use.

[spaceman]

I think we can also agree that no one really wants to do 7/8 notation on a 4/4 grid. So yes, it's a pain to work in FL if you want or need to compose in 7/8 or something else that's not 4/4.

spaceman, isn't that's the argument though? FL does so much else well that musicians are asking for it to be easier to create a composition with FL in different time signatures and to change time signature midway through a composition. On am I wrong?

No, that is what the discussion was about. But then it turned into an exercise of obsessive compulsive misunderstanding that unfortunately has gone on for 30 pages now.

[spaceman]

& I was told that FL couldn't do 7/8, because when you set the steps per beat to 2 and beats per bar to 7, "the tempo was wrong". Turns out it's not wrong, it's just expressed in /8 instead of /4 (right?)

That's workable if you stick to 7/8 throughout, but les so if you change signatures. Although I personally accept that this is probably not exactly a priority for 99% of FLStudio users.

[tony tony chopper]

It simply seems very odd for someone who has implemented this functionality to not be aware of its origins or intended use.

I prefer to think of FL as a successor to trackers, rather than the few first MIDI sequencers.

The audiences were completely different, one was familiar with computers, the other was musically trained.
The goal is to make music, and there isn't just one way to do it - trackers proved that. They were more logical and didn't require to have learnt any theory. Strange that this didn't alter the quality of music made with them.

So I think that it's not just a programmer of music software who doesn't need to know music theory, it also applies to musicians.

[EvilDragon]

yes it apparently does, -for the tempo-. That's what I'm reading the most, that (unless specified), a tempo value assumes that a beat is a quarter note. Fine that you don't agree, but I'll trust the majority.

EXCEPT SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T.

sjm already posted an example of that (Mozart), where tempo designation was given in 1/8th notes. There are plenty of such compositions out there.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

So I think that it's not just a programmer of music software who doesn't need to know music theory, it also applies to musicians.

you really don't need much (if any) theory at all. ever danced a waltz ?? my great grandpa did, and all he knew was you had to count to 3; the rest is just about feel

i think you do your user-base (and your software) a big disservice by protecting these poor lambs from all that theory that threatens to distract them from making 'beatz'. i don't know theory, but i use multiple time signatures often. again, it's a feel thing.

the irony is that supporting multiple sig. changes make it easier for the uninitiated to play with, as the click track provides a solid backbone to work off of....

anyway, just because the feature is there it doesn't mean everyone will use it. i don't use the score editor in logic, but i can appreciate why others would

[murnau]

Give it a f**king rest now.

[Robert Randolph]

hate how you can't delete posts.

[spaceman]

yes it apparently does, -for the tempo-. That's what I'm reading the most, that (unless specified), a tempo value assumes that a beat is a quarter note. Fine that you don't agree, but I'll trust the majority.

EXCEPT SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T.

sjm already posted an example of that (Mozart), where tempo designation was given in 1/8th notes. There are plenty of such compositions out there.

Yes, but not in BPM in a DAW.
120BPM is 120 quarter notes per minute, always, never 120 eights.