Roland Cloud

[Ingonator]

why we first got the D-50 that was originally released for V-Synth, and now the JV-1080 that was basically what was inside Roland Fantom, AFAIK. .

I had checked the Fantom X manual and the 78 FXs in the JV-1080 plugin indeed seem to be identical to those in the JV-1080 plugin.

The samples in the JV-1080 plugin are similar to those in XV-3080, XV-5080 and the INT waveform bank in Integra-7. The Fantom X seems to have different sample content (and overall more samples) while a bunch of the included sample might be from the old synths.

You can check the waveforms of Fantom X here:
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pd ... ist_e1.pdf

[fmr]

why we first got the D-50 that was originally released for V-Synth, and now the JV-1080 that was basically what was inside Roland Fantom, AFAIK. .

I had checked the Fantom X manual and the 78 FXs in the JV-1080 plugin indeed seem to be identical to those in the JV-1080 plugin.

The samples in the JV-1080 plugin are similar to those in XV-3080, XV-5080 and the INT waveform bank in Integra-7. The Fantom X seems to have different sample content (and overall more samples) while a bunch of the included sample might be from the old synths.

You can check the waveforms of Fantom X here:
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pd ... ist_e1.pdf

So, the JV-1080 was ported from the Integra-7 then? Or the sample content from the Integra-7, and the FX from the Fantom? Anyway, the point is: It's existing code, that's being ported (and I'm good and glad it is being ported, instead of buried inside devices that most likely will be discontinued in a couple of years).

[Ingonator]

why we first got the D-50 that was originally released for V-Synth, and now the JV-1080 that was basically what was inside Roland Fantom, AFAIK. .

I had checked the Fantom X manual and the 78 FXs in the JV-1080 plugin indeed seem to be identical to those in the JV-1080 plugin.

The samples in the JV-1080 plugin are similar to those in XV-3080, XV-5080 and the INT waveform bank in Integra-7. The Fantom X seems to have different sample content (and overall more samples) while a bunch of the included sample might be from the old synths.

You can check the waveforms of Fantom X here:
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pd ... ist_e1.pdf

So, the JV-1080 was ported from the Integra-7 then? Or the sample content from the Integra-7, and the FX from the Fantom? Anyway, the point is: It's existing code, that's being ported (and I'm good and glad it is being ported, instead of buried inside devices that most likely will be discontinued in a couple of years).

It is indeed possible that most parts of the JV-1080 plugin are ported from the PCM engine in the Integra-7.

In the other thread i had alraedy posted those videos links about the PCM engine and JV-1080 patches in Integra-7:

[Echoes in the Attic]

But I'd maybe go for the system-8 instead of cloud as that has the ones I'm most interested in, the jupiter and juno (plus system-8). Plus full hardware control, seems nice. I wonder what the third plugout will be that's included (there's one more space as I understand it). I just wish there was a 5 octave keyboard, that I'd probably buy.

I was thinking of getting the System-something until they started with the cloud thing, now I just don't know what their focus is going to be or what will get abandoned. Maybe I still will eventually, the tight hardware integration is where I see Roland shining their best. I just kind of wish the shine wasn't neon green on black, that's not really to my tastes.

I don’t really understand the skepticism because of the cloud stuff. I’m not a big fan of the cloud subscription but the fact they are doing all those cloud instruments doesn’t mean they won’t focus on the system-8, that doesn’t make sense. They are meant to work together. There’s a button on the vsts to upload to, or be controlled by, the system-8/1. They are part of the same ecosystem. More cloud synths mean more synths that can be controlled by the hardware. You get 4 synths when you buy a system-8. That would take 4 years with the cloud to own those and almost a thousand dollars.

But I’m cheap and don’t like having too many keyboards so will probably look for a used one some day. But it would be cool having a Jupiter-8 or Juno 106 at the push of a button with everything mapped out to dedicated hardware.

I am curious about a couple things though. If you own the system-8, do you just get to chose any fourth synth you want?

Also, the keyboard isn’t multi-timbral right? You can only trigger one at a time by a midi sequencer?

The potential of the System-8 and Roland Cloud integration is much greater the the reality. Outside of the promised Juno-106, there have been zero new plug out synths released for the System-8. Newer Roland Cloud synths aren't compatible and there's no official word from Roland if any new System-8 plug outs will ever be released. It's been over a year since anything new came out via the Juno plug out, which I can't even buy.

In addition, if you own your plug out synth via a perpetual license, Roland stopped updating it. So while I own the SH-101 plugin, the Cloud version that uses less CPU isn't available to me without ponying up for the Cloud subscription each month. If they ever fix the blurry GUIs of the plugins, recent history indicates that my SH-101 won't get the update.

Also, it sounded like you may be a bit unclear as to how the additional plug outs work. The plug outs that come with the System-8 are only available in the System-8. If you want the VST/AU plugin versions, you have to subscribe to Roland Cloud. Those synths are not even available for sale as perpetual licenses, let alone free for S8 owners.

The 4th plug out slot can be filled with any Roland VA synth you want, but only the stuff that came out before the System 8 was released is available for sale via perpetual license. So the Jupiter, Juno and System-8 plugins are not for sale outside of the Cloud, even if you own the hardware System-8 with the plug outs. The digital synths can't be loaded into the S8 at all. There's also no poly synths that didn't already come with the System-8 so unless you want to pay a subscription for the privilege of loading a second Juno or Jupiter, basically limiting you to mono synths in the 4th slot.

So yeah, there's A LOT that's not to like about how Roland rolled out and supported the S8. There's a ton of missed opportunities that could still be rectified, but there's a Roland sales sheet floating around that indicates they only sold 4,000 System-8's which compared to other products in their current lineup isn't a lot. I think poor sales combined with how support (via any new plug outs or consumer friendly treatment) has dried up for the System-8 hardware, along with the hard push for the Cloud mean the System-8 is on the road to becoming abandoned. Roland also has a long history of doing just this.

That said, it's a nice standalone synth and probably the best generic VA synth controller if you want lots of hands on controls. However, know what you're getting into. There's little to no reason to think Roland will fulfill any more of the System-8's awesome potential when it comes to the plug out concept. It is what it is, which is all it was really advertised to be and nothing more.

Thanks for clearing that up. I did wrongly assume that you would get the VST versions of the plugout synths that caem with the system-8. That is absurd that you don't get those, and that you don't updates for plugouts that you own when not on the cloud. It's insane. I'd be writing very nasty letters to Roland.

[fmr]

Thanks for clearing that up. I did wrongly assume that you would get the VST versions of the plugout synths that caem with the system-8. That is absurd that you don't get those, and that you don't updates for plugouts that you own when not on the cloud. It's insane. I'd be writing very nasty letters to Roland.

It's not absurd, if you consider Roland Cloud is not the same company. Roland is not making the VST versions, Roland Cloud is. And Roland Cloud has no obligations towards Roland clients, just their own.

Taken from their site: "Roland Virtual Sonics LLC. represents the joint venture between Roland Corporation and Seattle based Virtual Sonics. We are a software, services and media solutions provider that represents the next wave in the evolution of modern music creation, addressing several challenges present in the current music creation landscape."

That said, in their FAQ they said they are planning special conditions for customers who bought the Roland Software. But since Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 never existed as software versions (VST, that is) done by Roland, I guess those two do not qualify.

[braj]

It certainly confuses the end user, and going under the Roland brand, with very similar plugins, one is not crazy to assume they are both representing Roland. Because really, they are. I'm not buying it until and unless both sides becomes integrated.

[Echoes in the Attic]

It certainly confuses the end user, and going under the Roland brand, with very similar plugins, one is not crazy to assume they are both representing Roland. Because really, they are. I'm not buying it until and unless both sides becomes integrated.

Not only that, but the fact that the VST plugins have a big button on it that says "Plugout", allowing you to transfer the synths to the system-8/1, obviously the user would assume that the juno plugin is the same as the juno on the system-8, because it is. But if you own the system-8, you own the version that's in the system-8, not the version in the VST that can be sent to the system-8. That's just retarded.

[braj]

It certainly confuses the end user, and going under the Roland brand, with very similar plugins, one is not crazy to assume they are both representing Roland. Because really, they are. I'm not buying it until and unless both sides becomes integrated.

Not only that, but the fact that the VST plugins have a big button on it that says "Plugout", allowing you to transfer the synths to the system-8/1, obviously the user would assume that the juno plugin is the same as the juno on the system-8, because it is. But if you own the system-8, you own the version that's in the system-8, not the version in the VST that can be sent to the system-8. That's just retarded.

Yep.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Well despite the questionable license issues with Roland, I still have to say that they really nailed it with these plugins. I haven't really loved the Juno emulations that have come out so far, but the 106 is an endless sweet spot synth, it's gorgeous. And the jupiter and 101 are pretty bang on as well and my favorite of those to date.

[braj]

Well despite the questionable license issues with Roland, I still have to say that they really nailed it with these plugins. I haven't really loved the Juno emulations that have come out so far, but the 106 is an endless sweet spot synth, it's gorgeous. And the jupiter and 101 are pretty bang on as well and my favorite of those to date.

Yeah, they just need to fix some stuff with how they do their plugin/plugout business model, otherwise TAL stays my preferred choice for those two synths. They need a straight purchase choice, I'd say ability to resell if you can't already, and ability to load cloud synths on plugout hardware. New plugin interfaces wouldn't hurt either. Then I really would start saving pennies to buy their hardware, and get a subscription to their software cloud. Until then, there are a lot of great plugins with better options for me right now.

[SLiC]

Yes, there are specific questionable licence issues for plug out owners and plug out hardware owners that bought in before the cloud. There are also general issues about the use of subscription for VSTs. What if Roland are successful with this all the other big boys follow them....Play (already subscription option) Korg, Yamaha, NI, Arturia, UHE etc. How many subscriptions would you have if the industry went that way?

I have nothing particular against subscription as ‘an option’ and with the free plug after a year (NFR?) the value is OK, but I don’t like the fact that there is no option to buy, you have to subscribe. Surely it would have been much fairer to offer buy or subscribe (especialy for people Like me that bought in to system 1 and briefly had our own ARIA accounts/shop)

[braj]

You have to have consecutive months as well, not something you can put down after 10 months and pick up a few months later with your equity intact, I do not like that at all.

[SLiC]

Can any confirm that if you get a free plug can it be sold/transfered? (Just wondering if I will ever be able to get plug outs second hand)

[db3]

Taken from their site: "Roland Virtual Sonics LLC represents the joint venture between Roland Corporation and Seattle based Virtual Sonics"

I assume Roland are producing (or working with someone) to produce the emulation VSTs based on their ACB/DCB code, and Virtual Sonics are producing the sample-based VST content. And I suspect someone in Roland naively signed a contract with these guys for cloud exclusive delivery, and that's why they are in such a mess.

It's a very poor show that Roland have their own store for older VST licences, whereas Virtual Sonics have subscription for newer VST licences — and owners of Plugout synths don't get immediate access to compatible VST versions to use as editors (particularly given limited onboard preset storage).

[fmr]

Taken from their site: "Roland Virtual Sonics LLC represents the joint venture between Roland Corporation and Seattle based Virtual Sonics"

I assume Roland are producing (or working with someone) to produce the emulation VSTs based on their ACB/DCB code, and Virtual Sonics are producing the sample-based VST content. And I suspect someone in Roland naively signed a contract with these guys for cloud exclusive delivery, and that's why they are in such a mess.

For what I understand, all the work (sampling and VST development) is being done by people hired by Roland Virtual Sonics LLC. Roland also hired someone to write their VST plug-ins, but probably is not doing that anymore, hence the fact they ceased to be updated.

Regarding the VST versions of Jupiter-8 and Juno-106, I agree that the owners of System-8 had (have) the expectation of using them as VSTs too, following the example of the previous "plug-outs", and Roland (or Roland Virtual Sonics LLC) should address that.

But before issuing any new versions for the ones being sold or VST versions of JUpiter-8 and Juno-106 to the owners of System-8, they have to implement some kind of protection scheme for them, which currently they have not.