KVR Audio

colin@loomer · Post by **colin@loomer** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:09 pm

Anosou: do you know if there are limits on preset formats? Does building a Rack Extension plug-in force you to use a proprietary format, or is a plug-in free to store presets in whatever format they choose? Or, to rephrase this in a different way: if a plug-in dev recoded an already existing product into a Rack Extension, would it be possible for the RE version to open presets created with, for example, the VST?

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:13 pm

headquest wrote:Do you think that the VST plugins created by Urs, Softube, KORG, etc are all unstable in their current format?? Isn't this genuinely an unfair and grossly over-simplified statement?

Personally I've never had a problem with plug-ins beyond the odd one that is a CPU hog & causes the whole computer to grind to a halt! I think Propellerheads are right in saying there are some limitations with plug-ins that won't be inherent with RE devices. But personally I think the whole stability issue is a bit of a myth. A bit like with the whole Mac V PC thing. I don't have these mysterious problems on a PC that I've heard about for years.

Anosou · Post by **Anosou** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:13 pm

CPB wrote:Anosou: do you know if there are limits on preset formats? Does building a Rack Extension plug-in force you to use a proprietary format, or is a plug-in free to store presets in whatever format they choose? Or, to rephrase this in a different way: if a plug-in dev recoded an already existing product into a Rack Extension, would it be possible for the RE version to open presets created with, for example, the VST?

I'm not 100% but I know you'll be able to browse for all kinds of patches from one browser using "Create Instrument" or "Create Effect" like in Reason today. I.e. you can try sounds that are "Bass" regardless of what device makes them.

I'm not sure about patch compatibility though but I'll add this to the "to talk about in public in the future"-list (that's getting very very big I might add - love all these questions).

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:14 pm

arp_laszlo wrote: Am I a bad person if I tell a potential client that 'unlike other developers I am reliable' when they ask me why they should hire me?

Well I think in some countries there would be potential legal implications to bad-mouthing other professionals - the onus would be on you to provide proof they were unreliable. Just saying

EDIT: also here in the UK, what you describe would go against the codes of practice laid down by all our professional organisations within the music industry. So I guess it is "bad", yes

softska · Post by **softska** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:18 pm

FWIW, Renoise 2.8 have sandboxing. I turned the thing off since there's hardly any crash from my plugins to save some cpu, but it's already here.

It's not a perfect sandbox, but I crashed couple known prob ones in it and it held up fine (for me, not everyone)

simesf · Post by **simesf** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:36 pm

@bitspeek - thanks very much for that video. More than anything I've seen on this thread it gives a small insight for what could be done with this new direction. Certainly if I was a developer I'd be creating as many combinators as I could which include my plugin plus any of Reasons native units for all manner of new ways to use my baby. It'd cost me nothing but time to bundle them with my plugin and could hugely increase the perceived value of my plugin as well as offer the end user bags more usability.

I use both Reason and another 'standard' DAW with vsts, probably like a lot of people who use Reason. I'm no fanboy since I pay for what I get from any software company but I think this is a great move, possibly the best since Reason started. Good for Props by changing their 'no vst or audio in' design philosophy when it became necessary to do so, thus serving their customers.

Oh, and kudos to the Props guy on this thread for the good natured way of dealing with the naysayers on this thread who think this is an ethical issue about company direction/marketing hype/what colour shirt the presenter was wearing and not whether this is good for users of Reason plus any developers who get extra streams of revenue for it. Why don't we let them decide for themselves whether they want to invest their time developing for this new format? Or we could always storm Urs Heckmann's office and trash it because he already appears to have done so.

EnochLight · Post by **EnochLight** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:03 pm

Wow, this has become an incredibly interesting thread. Lot's of opinions here, and some great information.

That said, here's my opinion: marketing feelings aside, Propellerhead made a wrapper and a delivery system to match for their customers. This will allow dev's - ALL DEV's - to get to customers that they normally would not ever have access to: Reason users who do not ReWire (and believe me, they are legion).

This is great for not only Propellerhead, but their customers, and developers alike. Everyone wins. Well, everyone of those three...

Whether dev's charge for another license for all of those who already use the VST version or not, I still think it's fantastic all around. It's a huge opportunity for developers to make more money with very little effort, assuming the marketing statement about how easy it is to compile existing code really is. Judging from Urs' from u-he excitement, I'm guessing that part of the marketing is spot on. And it's a huge opportunity for Reason users to get access to a whole other world of soundscaping tools, instruments, and effects without straying from what they are comfortable in working with.

Competition is good, folks!

Synthbuilder · Post by **Synthbuilder** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:14 pm

eXode wrote:Since Reason 5 you can choose "Song Self-Contain Settings" and actually include any samples from 3rd party refills in your song. You can't "unpack" those files though unless you own that refill, they stay saved within the document.

Ah, I thought it had changed. Thanks for putting me right.

I was a big user of Reason from 2 and 3, and then less so with 4. I jumped ship completely before 5 but rejoined late in 5's life when I found I missed some of things that Reason had. I've mostly been using 5 as a rewire slave and I tend to print to audio in my host as soon as possible because I don't like to use rewire these days.

I was really hoping that the Rerack thing would be the Reason rack as a VST. But it's the opposite. It's VSTs (in all but name) in the Reason rack.

Alas, I'm too far down the Live + VSTs route to change now. And really the three view GUI of Reason doesn't appeal much to me.

Tony

memyselfandus · Post by **memyselfandus** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:14 pm

Anyone know how the store will work? will people be able to purchase rack extensions for offline installations?

about 31:00 in he says it gets installed automatically. and they "host" your purchases.....
#!

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:23 pm

memyselfandus wrote:Anyone know how the store will work?

You give them money and they give you a product in return.

memyselfandus · Post by **memyselfandus** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:24 pm

about 31:00 in he says it gets installed automatically. and they "host" your purchases. just wondering

#!

arp_laszlo · Post by **arp_laszlo** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:30 pm

headquest wrote:
arp_laszlo wrote: Am I a bad person if I tell a potential client that 'unlike other developers I am reliable' when they ask me why they should hire me?
Well I think in some countries there would be potential legal implications to bad-mouthing other professionals - the onus would be on you to provide proof they were unreliable. Just saying

EDIT: also here in the UK, what you describe would go against the codes of practice laid down by all our professional organisations within the music industry. So I guess it is "bad", yes

Most business interactions do not take place in a court of law. And of course most conversations are far from that as well (good thing for the slobbering drunks trying to get laid on weekends).

You're just taking the marketing speak too seriously - people do not need to be protected from themselves to such an extent.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:35 pm

arp_laszlo wrote:
headquest wrote:
arp_laszlo wrote: Am I a bad person if I tell a potential client that 'unlike other developers I am reliable' when they ask me why they should hire me?
Well I think in some countries there would be potential legal implications to bad-mouthing other professionals - the onus would be on you to provide proof they were unreliable. Just saying

EDIT: also here in the UK, what you describe would go against the codes of practice laid down by all our professional organisations within the music industry. So I guess it is "bad", yes
Most business interactions do not take place in a court of law. And of course most conversations are far from that as well (good thing for the slobbering drunks trying to get laid on weekends).

You're just taking the marketing speak too seriously - people do not need to be protected from themselves to such an extent.

The courts would be full of anti-wrinkle cream related cases.

realisation · Post by **realisation** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:44 pm

arp_laszlo wrote: As Anosou noted, it's painting in broad strokes. Anyone with half a brain will not believe the marketing verbatim and will learn & decide for themselves.

So Marketing = Lies? Thats the first i've heard of that

arp_laszlo · Post by **arp_laszlo** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:53 pm

@spaceman: don't forget about hair loss treatments!

@realisation:

Musikmesse 2012: Propellerhead to share "exciting news"