KVR Audio

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:16 pm

well, sorry but it did not go like that actually. Audio was never introduced in Reason, but in Record. People asked for audio tracks in Reason when PH said "it's a no no". Customers never asked for a brand new program, they just asked for audio in and vst support, because they need them. We know how things turned out with Record... The Dongle was introduced for Record, not for Reason. Everything for Record. So why not simply introduce vst support for Record and leave Reason as it was, then? Did they listen to the users?... Eight years later and only because Record failed?.... Why audio tracks in Reason, if the concept is merely "vintage modular"? Why third party racks, when they've always said the most advantage is that everyone share the same instruments and effects? 10 years is a long lifetime in vst/daw terms: that is why in 2012 you can go nowhere without vst support IMHO.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:29 pm

myrna wrote: that is why in 2012 you can go nowhere without vst support IMHO.

gosh. have you warned apple and avid?

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:32 pm

AU and RTAS/AAX are only derivative clones of VST. AU because of the apple's manthra "we are different, we are better, we think this and that"; RTAS because Protools had to accept and realize that steinberg's native technology works (see Nuendo), despite their expensive TDM hardware boards.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:36 pm

myrna wrote:AU and RTAS/AAX are only derivative clones of VST.

which is only a derivative clone of directx plugins.

not that 'being a derivative clone of VST' whether that's true, false, or just stupidly f**king disingenuous, has any relevance whatsoever. like it, sulk about it, or call it derivative, apple and avid will still manage to 'go somewhere' without vst support, wont they?

I guess by your logic steinberg are screwed with VST3, though, since it has bugger-all in common with the original VST standard.

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:44 pm

FYI i am on mac working with Logic Pro. But everything started with Steinberg's VST. (Direct...what?!)

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:45 pm

myrna wrote:FYI i am on mac working with Logic Pro. But everything started with Steinberg's VST. (Direct...what?!)

Ask your mummy.

saturdaysaint · Post by **saturdaysaint** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:49 pm

myrna wrote:AU and RTAS/AAX are only derivative clones of VST. AU because of the apple's manthra "we are different, we are better, we think this and that"; RTAS because Protools had to accept and realize that steinberg's native technology works (see Nuendo), despite their expensive TDM hardware boards.

So you wouldn't have any objections if RE were just a derivative clone of VST like the AU plugins in the host you use? The fact that it's different from VST is the only reason you're complaining?

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:54 pm

I call "VST" every virtual instrument/effect. Because every virtual instrument must be VST. Never heard of "AU" only plugins. Usually every plugin is a VST. Then they can even make an AU/RTAS/whatsoever version for the Apple or Protools market. But the only and real stanrdard is VST as far as I know. If a plugin can work only in one single DAW or OS (see AU/RTAS), for me it is not a standard. Let alone RE.

puzzlefactory · Post by **puzzlefactory** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:11 pm

I'm glad it's not like VST, which is in my opinion the worst of the pluggin formats. Buggy as hell! Being a Logic/ProTools user for years, I never used to use VSTs. Then I started using Live and found I could start using them. I've never had so many crashes in my life! Thankfully Live also has the option of loading AU so I don't touch my VST folder at all any more. If Propellerheads had included VST support it would have been a nightmare IMO. ( not to mention how to integrate VSTs into the rack).

And again, I think piracy is a big factor. Not allowing VST integration closes off the system to all those kids with £10,000 of pirated software on their laptops, which IMO can only be a good thing.

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:18 pm

well, VST and MIDI are so "buggy" that everyone play them and every music software house adopt them. Strange people out there...

puzzlefactory · Post by **puzzlefactory** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:22 pm

I can't speak for everyone else, just my self. Most of the professional studios I've been in don't use VSTs either, they use Pro Tools and so use RTAS or TDM which is a hell of a lot more stable then VST.

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:24 pm

puzzlefactory wrote:I can't speak for everyone else, just my self. Most of the professional studios I've been in don't use VSTs either, they use Pro Tools and so use RTAS or TDM which is a hell of a lot more stable then VST.

This was years ago, in the "pre-Nuendo" era. Things have changed.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:24 pm

Funny thing is, if Propellerhead *did* introduce VST support in (say) Reason 8.5, all the people who are currently anti-VST will be saying "WOW!! AWESOME!! Propellerheads are just freaking AMAZING!! THANK YOU!!" ... and stuff like that.

Some people just like whatever Propellerhead do, and that's fine.

For my part, while you people were debating how much you love or hate VST, I've been playing around with Arturia's Minimoog synth - a $229 VST that they just gave away for free!! Funny thing is that having used Reason for so many years I've generally not tried that many VST alternatives. But trying this today I'm thinking ... wow - this really is great. The sound it makes is way better than any of the synths in Reason, for sure. And <shock horror> it hasn't caused my laptop to have BSOD a single time yet

myrna · Post by **myrna** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:32 pm

You must consider that there are people (like me) that are not that rich but want to remain honest and loyal. That's one of the reasons I (obsessively) asked for vst support. At last, after years of unheard requests I had to buy Live and Logic Pro and sell Reason. And RE is not the answer.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:33 pm

myrna wrote: Why silly? I've just noticed all the REs are old vsts (e.g. Predator: 2007; Polysix: 2004) and/or light effects which could run on my crappy ipad, too. Sorry, but that is not what I mean for "plugin alternative". Then, if you want to believe it, ok. Peace.

Sure, there are some lightweights in there. But some of the tools really fill some gaps in reason. I find it painful to get a believable 303 out of thor and Reason makes doing simple techno bits fun, so I think that ABL2 is a winner. I also think that the softtube reverbs are excellent. I'm no collector, I'm super conservative about spending money on plugins, but I'll probably pick up a few of the REs just because they make using Reason more fun.

Just downloaded Reason 6.5 plus a couple of RE's from the shop...