KVR Audio

poonna · Post by **poonna** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:21 pm

fmr wrote:I can't understand what's going on in here regarding DAW and notation, but ther's already an open standerd for notation within a DAW, It's called Music XML, and is supported by all the major notation programs, as well as Cubase. So, if Caewalk wnat's to have some notation intehration, it's as easy as fully support Music XML. No need to reinvent the wheel.

I believe MusicXML is just a representational standard. It doesn't say anything about how two applications might communicate notation data with each other.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:25 pm

fmr wrote:I can't understand what's going on in here regarding DAW and notation, but ther's already an open standerd for notation within a DAW, It's called Music XML, and is supported by all the major notation programs, as well as Cubase. So, if Caewalk wnat's to have some notation intehration, it's as easy as fully support Music XML. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Seems to me that people just want the notation app running "inside" the DAW... maybe not so much that's it's particularly difficult to move midi to and fro between 2 apps.

But again, I don't use those apps so it's probably better to ask someone who does use those external apps what they actually want in that regard and why. Maybe someone here who does all that can answer that question.

What do you want in that regard and what (for you) would be the benefit?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:25 pm

poonna wrote:
fmr wrote:I can't understand what's going on in here regarding DAW and notation, but ther's already an open standerd for notation within a DAW, It's called Music XML, and is supported by all the major notation programs, as well as Cubase. So, if Caewalk wnat's to have some notation intehration, it's as easy as fully support Music XML. No need to reinvent the wheel.
I believe MusicXML is just a representational standard. It doesn't say anything about how two applications might communicate notation data with each other.

They communicate the same way as they do with any audio file. You save the score as MusicXML, open it in a notation program, edit it the way you want, save it again as MusicXML, and you may open it (again) in your DAW. This, of course, assuming that the DAW may importo and export. ADAIK, Cubase can export but not impot MusicXML, which is not good,but at least you can finish your compostion in a beter notation editor for printing and publishing purposes.
Finale imposrts and exports, which means that, if Cubase had Impot capacity, we could import a score done in Finale into Cubase, and create a complete orchestration by further editing it and using an orchestra VSTi.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:28 pm

LawrenceF wrote:
fmr wrote:I can't understand what's going on in here regarding DAW and notation, but ther's already an open standerd for notation within a DAW, It's called Music XML, and is supported by all the major notation programs, as well as Cubase. So, if Caewalk wnat's to have some notation intehration, it's as easy as fully support Music XML. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Seems to me that people just want the notation app running "inside" the DAW... maybe not so much that's it's particularly difficult to move midi to and fro between 2 apps.

But again, I don't use those apps so it's probably better to ask someone who does use those external apps what they actually want in that regard and why.

Moving MIDI back and forth is possible, but tricky, since the interpretation into notation is not always good. Music XML, OTOH is very precise - basically everything translates correctly. But it's not possible to run one inside the other (at least for now, and that I'm aware of).

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:28 pm

Would it be a little easier to hit a key command "Edit with Notion" and just have the score appear in the DAW editor? I assume that's what some are talking about, as opposed to export / import file trips.

Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see what happens or not I guess.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:48 pm

LawrenceF wrote:Would it be a little easier to hit a key command "Edit with Notion" and just have the score appear in the DAW editor? I assume that's what some are talking about, as opposed to export / import file trips.

Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see what happens or not I guess.

yes, if PreSonus wants to keep Notion a separate product, but better yet is to integrate it within the DAW as a new editor, as Cubase, Logic and Digital Performer do. Neither of them, probably are so advanced as Notion, but Cubase notation module is very powerful, and with the hiring of the Sibelius team, Steinberg can very well make the final step to integrate a full fledged notation editor within Cubase.

poonna · Post by **poonna** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:10 pm

fmr wrote:
poonna wrote:
fmr wrote:I can't understand what's going on in here regarding DAW and notation, but ther's already an open standerd for notation within a DAW, It's called Music XML, and is supported by all the major notation programs, as well as Cubase. So, if Caewalk wnat's to have some notation intehration, it's as easy as fully support Music XML. No need to reinvent the wheel.
I believe MusicXML is just a representational standard. It doesn't say anything about how two applications might communicate notation data with each other.
They communicate the same way as they do with any audio file. You save the score as MusicXML, open it in a notation program, edit it the way you want, save it again as MusicXML, and you may open it (again) in your DAW. This, of course, assuming that the DAW may importo and export. ADAIK, Cubase can export but not impot MusicXML, which is not good,but at least you can finish your compostion in a beter notation editor for printing and publishing purposes.
Finale imposrts and exports, which means that, if Cubase had Impot capacity, we could import a score done in Finale into Cubase, and create a complete orchestration by further editing it and using an orchestra VSTi.

That's all cool, but not quite what I talked about though. I believe we here want Melodyne-like tight integration. Basically, having the notation application embedded in the DAW like Melodyne does and communicate directly without going back and forth through MusicXML files.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:32 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
trimph1 wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:
haggardstudios wrote:It amazes me when people complain about bad code in Cakewalk Sonar. I have been using Cakewalk Sonar for several years and have had nothing but success with it.

Many times, bad code is not bad code at all (and it pertains to more than Sonar). Far too often, the culprit is SUE, which is much harder to fix and repair than bad code. For those who do not know about SUE, read on.
...

I almost forgot to say what SUE is. SUE is Stupid User Error
That's right. Let's blame every bit of justified anger and irritation that users have with the products they've spent money and time on... ON THE USERS THEMSELVES. Great idea. NOT. The most common form of redirection away from the reality of a problem is to blame the problem on the people it hurts, to marginalize them as idiots/whiners, and to present the flaws and defects as if non-existent. Most frequent type of ignorant computer industry apologetics. Blame the user. Blame the victim. So wrong on every level. This is the thing i HATE about Windows and Windows software in general. It's the same attitude in the Linux camp. It's a bad attitude to have and is why i stopped being a tech (i couldn't stand my peers being such arrogant jerks to our clients, whether up front or to their backs).
If it was all users fault then why all the bug fixes, patches and et cetera?

You didnt fall for the bit where someone didnt say 'everything' and then got jumped by a whole group of people saying he said 'everything', did you?

He's right, sometimes it is the user's fault. You're right, sometimes its not. Dont let the lynch mob distract you from remembering that both cases are 'sometimes'.

I'm pleading SUE did it!!lol!

Arglebargle · Post by **Arglebargle** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:48 pm

This thread is catching up in pages to the Catwig one. Let's keep up the effort.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:24 pm

Arglebargle wrote:This thread is catching up in pages to the Catwig one. Let's keep up the effort.

What is Catwig?

vintagevibe · Post by **vintagevibe** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:39 pm

Cubase does it right. Great notation inside the DAW that can create correct scores with out changing the underlying MIDI data unless you want to.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:00 pm

JoseC. wrote:It seems like many people just don't understand the most important changes, like ARA and the new VST engine...

Eh, they sold me on VST integration about three times and failed to actually integrate it. Not buying it this time.

progtronic · Post by **progtronic** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:23 pm

Arglebargle wrote:This thread is catching up in pages to the Catwig one. Let's keep up the effort.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:38 pm

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:40 pm

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Cakewalk Sonar X3