VSTis as good as hardware? Similar to Access Virus Quality?

[gsoto]

Great thread!
Here is my attempt with Xhip on the Virus sound:
http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/xhip_virus_arp.mp3

you nailed it

(...) IMHO it's not even close. (...)

um, that are just detuned saws...

Yep, I think there is a significant difference with the original. Someone (I can't remember who) said that the Virus sounded fuller and more pleasant. I am not an experienced synth programmer and I learned a lot making that patch. I couldn't get much closer to the sound on a second attempt. It's hard for me to traduce terms like "softer"/"gentle"/"fuller" to synth parameters. Maybe you could help me to identify the concrete differences between the sounds and I could give it another try.

It was not a competition of "who sounds phattest" but "who gets closest to the original".

Hmmm, I didn't know it was a competition.

[bryanf]

I am voting for the Virus. If you want that sound (people do and they aren't all kiddies) then does it beautifully. If you find something that makes a sound you like, use it!

Cheers,
B

[aciddose]

Aliasing? Aliasing has nothing todo with analog sound, infact it's impossible for an analog circuite (ie synth) to alias (exept if you use some kind of discrete sampling in the audio chain)

amplitude modulate by a sine at your desired 'sample rate'

obviously you can also use a simple sample&hold to get the exact effect.

[ianscott111]

Why haven't I heard anything about Reaktor (5) ? I know its used professionally all the time, and it offers all you want (cause its infinite modular)? Does anyone know if its worth to buy a Clavia Modular G2, if you have Reaktor 5?

-Victor

All the NI products have the worst manuals, especially Reactor! (I consider as best the GMedia's Minimonsta Manual). It's quite difficult to understand how exactly this monster (Reactor) works and then program it by only reading its manual.For this reason, i believe that hardware like G2 is better because it's easier to handle it even if you have it for 2 hours. Except this, i don't believe that Reactor is worst than a G2.I could say that it's better..It depends on your programming a lot. On the other side, you can use other people's patches which i personally found good only for modern production techniques and experimental music. With G2 you can quicker get "into the point". I'm not a fan of Clavia though..they sell steel at the price of gold...

But steel is strong... I have a Nord Modular (G1) that got thrown off of a 4 foot high bed, and the only thing that happened to it was a broken key, which still works when pressed. I like the sound too. I've used a Nord Lead 2 (and the Nord MOdular) and find that they are my favorite keyboard manufacturer. They definately have a distinct sound though

[Algorythm]

Why haven't I heard anything about Reaktor (5) ? I know its used professionally all the time, and it offers all you want (cause its infinite modular)? Does anyone know if its worth to buy a Clavia Modular G2, if you have Reaktor 5?

-Victor

All the NI products have the worst manuals, especially Reactor! (I consider as best the GMedia's Minimonsta Manual). It's quite difficult to understand how exactly this monster (Reactor) works and then program it by only reading its manual.For this reason, i believe that hardware like G2 is better because it's easier to handle it even if you have it for 2 hours. Except this, i don't believe that Reactor is worst than a G2.I could say that it's better..It depends on your programming a lot. On the other side, you can use other people's patches which i personally found good only for modern production techniques and experimental music. With G2 you can quicker get "into the point". I'm not a fan of Clavia though..they sell steel at the price of gold...

But steel is strong... I have a Nord Modular (G1) that got thrown off of a 4 foot high bed, and the only thing that happened to it was a broken key, which still works when pressed. I like the sound too. I've used a Nord Lead 2 (and the Nord MOdular) and find that they are my favorite keyboard manufacturer. They definately have a distinct sound though

Then, maybe Clavia should start making reasonable priced controllers instead of unreasonable priced strong built synths.
VA technology is aged and companies still sell their shit at so high prices. For me, Virus and Nord Lead range are not revolutionary anymore! Not even with Access new marketing tricks like TI system and integrated audio I/O blah blah... By the way, TI spec sheets are for children! They are not detailed as they should be for such an expensive product! They only mention sampling rate but they don't give a Signal to Noise ratio, neither a frequency responce curve for their I/O interface. Without these its like buying a product with our ears closed.I still prefer a powerful laptop with my favorite vsti and a midi control keyboard instead of the stupid "pro" marketing tricks like ("it has a certain character","integrated i/o and controlling", "many onboard effects and presets","you can have the absolute control of it through your pc").

[vvanrij]

I would like cheaper dsp' expensions for my pc. Would love to see some sort of usb2 device for not too much money that supports all vst's, and then access and clavia can start making vst's ahh.. a perfect world...

[D-Fusion]

Why haven't I heard anything about Reaktor (5) ? I know its used professionally all the time, and it offers all you want (cause its infinite modular)? Does anyone know if its worth to buy a Clavia Modular G2, if you have Reaktor 5?

-Victor

All the NI products have the worst manuals, especially Reactor! (I consider as best the GMedia's Minimonsta Manual). It's quite difficult to understand how exactly this monster (Reactor) works and then program it by only reading its manual.For this reason, i believe that hardware like G2 is better because it's easier to handle it even if you have it for 2 hours. Except this, i don't believe that Reactor is worst than a G2.I could say that it's better..It depends on your programming a lot. On the other side, you can use other people's patches which i personally found good only for modern production techniques and experimental music. With G2 you can quicker get "into the point". I'm not a fan of Clavia though..they sell steel at the price of gold...

But steel is strong... I have a Nord Modular (G1) that got thrown off of a 4 foot high bed, and the only thing that happened to it was a broken key, which still works when pressed. I like the sound too. I've used a Nord Lead 2 (and the Nord MOdular) and find that they are my favorite keyboard manufacturer. They definately have a distinct sound though

Then, maybe Clavia should start making reasonable priced controllers instead of unreasonable priced strong built synths.
VA technology is aged and companies still sell their shit at so high prices. For me, Virus and Nord Lead range are not revolutionary anymore! Not even with Access new marketing tricks like TI system and integrated audio I/O blah blah... By the way, TI spec sheets are for children! They are not detailed as they should be for such an expensive product! They only mention sampling rate but they don't give a Signal to Noise ratio, neither a frequency responce curve for their I/O interface. Without these its like buying a product with our ears closed.I still prefer a powerful laptop with my favorite vsti and a midi control keyboard instead of the stupid "pro" marketing tricks like ("it has a certain character","integrated i/o and controlling", "many onboard effects and presets","you can have the absolute control of it through your pc").

I agree 100% Algorythm
Every synth you own has it own character both soft/hard synths, and i have also gone to software for music making.

I have kept 1. hardware synth but i never use it anymore since it is so much easier to fire up a softsynth instead of my hardware.

[nuffink]

I would like cheaper dsp' expensions for my pc. Would love to see some sort of usb2 device for not too much money that supports all vst's, and then access and clavia can start making vst's ahh.. a perfect world...

There's more than enough power in a modern cpu to run multiple instances of viruses and nord leads. Access and Nord don't make them because they'd be warezed within minutes and their profits would plummet.

I like the idea of expensions though. It just about sums up my view of such add-on cards and boxes.

[Frankyboy]

That is absolutely true D-Fusion. I also kept 1 hardware synth namely the Clavia MicroModular. It sits quietly on my Master keyboard but it is hardly ever used because like you said it is much easier to launch a software synth. But I keep him just in case.

[vvanrij]

Hmm, would it really be possible to run a Virus TI on a modern PC? I mean if you sum up the specs, I think it would get a modern pc on its knee's. 16multi, 80poly, the high quality sound, all the effects.. dunno if there is any vst synth that can match that, and not start crackling. Vaz Modular comes to mind though, I'm thinkin of buying that one, instead of a Clavia G2, any opinions on that one?

[aciddose]

"16multi, 80poly, the high quality sound, all the effects.."

16 multi, 80 poly. so, are there 80 voices divided between 16 layers, or 1280 voices?

an average ghz machine can do several hundred voices, mixing and effects without any trouble. if you're doing the kind of quick and dirty style code like i'm sure is used in the virus, very little cpu is required.

[tony tony chopper]

If its 'unison' (ok not really unison, it won't be 80 voices at once) mode counts for several voices, any interesting sound is even likely to reduce the poly quite a lot.

80 voices means a really efficient synth, but it really depends what a voice is.

[D-Fusion]

Nah i think it only is 16/80 So if you use all the 16 parts you will only get 5 notes poly on each part.

[ericj23]

"16multi, 80poly, the high quality sound, all the effects.."

16 multi, 80 poly. so, are there 80 voices divided between 16 layers, or 1280 voices?

an average ghz machine can do several hundred voices, mixing and effects without any trouble. if you're doing the kind of quick and dirty style code like i'm sure is used in the virus, very little cpu is required.

hope your remebering that the virus runs at 96khz internally and at err 0 latency

are you sure your pc can do this ???

[D-Fusion]

"16multi, 80poly, the high quality sound, all the effects.."

16 multi, 80 poly. so, are there 80 voices divided between 16 layers, or 1280 voices?

an average ghz machine can do several hundred voices, mixing and effects without any trouble. if you're doing the kind of quick and dirty style code like i'm sure is used in the virus, very little cpu is required.

hope your remebering that the virus runs at 96khz internally and at err 0 latency

are you sure your pc can do this ???

Btw. it is not 96khz it is 192khz, and no hardware synth has 0 latency it actually ranges from 7 to 11ms (Some are even higher)