KVR Audio

metrosonic · Post by **metrosonic** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:39 pm

Synthix, It's a multi-timbral synth. Call it layers, or give it some fancy space-aged name like 'blahdee blah blah blah engine'

It think this oversimplify's the architecture of Synthix slightly. But even layers are viewed in multi-timbral terms there's very little in the VA world to match apart from DCAM's Fusor or Korg's Legacy Cell (which in no way matches the audio quality of Fusor or Synthix). Romplers such as Omniverse offer multi-timbrality but they're still very much sample&synthesis instruments rather than pure VA's.

I hate hype as much as the next man but any buzz that has been bestowed on the Synthix is more than deserved and no I don't work for XILS-Lab.

JM
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http://soundcloud.com/leftside-wobble

DubFox · Post by **DubFox** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:44 pm

metrosonic wrote:any buzz that has been bestowed on the Synthix is more than deserved

Agree 100%.

Never the less, I stand by my comments on multi-timbrality. If only so it will stop the incessant, mundane Dune references.

Plus I wasn't criticising Xils, I said their implementation of multi-timbrality is worthy of the buzz. So I don't know how you got the idea I was dogging on Xils unless maybe english isn't your native tongue ?

I'm just saying multi-timbrality: It's sweet - but let's not pretend we're inventing the wheel here and thus feel the need to bang on and on about some other multi-timbral synth. To be honest I reckon Ingo is affiliated with Dune/Synapse Audio in some way.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:51 pm

DubFox wrote:I'm not sure what the point of the constant Dune references is but OK whatever floats your boat. (are you affiliated with the company in some way maybe?)

Synthix, It's a multi-timbral synth. Call it layers, or give it some fancy space-aged name like 'blahdee blah blah blah engine' , it's not an esoteric & mould-splitting new synthesis idea whatever way you call it. However the performance modes of Synthix to take advantage of that multi-timbrality are worthy of a bit of hype.

The comparison was obvious as it's the only synth with a comparable complex Unison engine (which is how it works in Synthix too).
My only relation to that company is that that i did betatesting and some factory sounds for Dune. I also got all 3 Xils synths (+ most sound sets) so what's your complaint?
If you read my post at this thread you'll see that 95% of my comments about Synthix are just positive but as a sound designer i also try to stay objective so some comparisons are not forbidden IMO.
The funny thing is that i got trouble at the Synapse Audio beta forum because i mentioned the Group buy there, even if it was in the "Off topic" sub-forum...

PS:
I had sent some Synthix presets to Laurent some time ago and hopefully some wil be included in v1.0 that's why i'm waiting for that. I'm working on a full bank for Synthix anyway.

PS:
The layers of Synthix are NOT working like layers in other synths as those layers are related to certain voices (e.g. 1 + 9, 2 + 10, etc.) and need the unison to work properly. Anyway there is also another kind of layers for layrs and split but those are "only" two.

Ingo

DubFox · Post by **DubFox** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:58 pm

No complaint, just observing the fact that you seem to talk an awful amount of muck. I know you bought all the xils synths, and all the soundsets. The whole world knows, or at least the small sub-section of it that has been following this thread. I really don't know why you felt the need to inform us of your purchasing habits ? It's not relevant to this discussion really, and I'd be genuinely surprised if anyone gives a damn ?

So you are affiliated with Dune/Synapse audio. And you want to be affiliated with Xils too ? ...and this is how you go about it ? the gormless sycophant routine ?

Rhetorical questions one & all.

Anyway, back to Synthix (plz?).

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:05 pm

DubFox wrote:No complaint, just observing the fact that you seem to talk an awful amount of muck. I know you bought all the xils synths, and all the soundsets. The whole world knows, or at least the small sub-section of it that has been following this thread. I really don't know why you felt the need to inform us of your purchasing habits ? It's not relevant to this discussion really, and I'd be genuinely surprised if anyone gives a damn ?

So you are affiliated with Dune/Synapse audio. And you want to be affiliated with Xils too ? ...and this is how you go about it ? the gormless sycophant routine ?

Rhetorical questions one & all.

Anyway, back to Synthix (plz?).

I am also closely related to Waldorf and Synth Magic (much more than to Synapse Audio BTW, you could check my signature...) but i did not do a comparison with Waldorf synths because this would not fit here. What's the problem with being interested in more than one company, especially when you do sound design?
I am selling and have sold a bunch of my other softsynths (including popular synths like e.g. Zebra, Blue, Predator, Minimonsta, Oddity, VAZ Modular 3, etc.) to concentrate more on some specific synths like e.g. Xils Lab so again. Where is the problem?

BTW here is the first part of my post which you refer to. Only praise for Synthix and no word about Dune:

Ingonator wrote:Hi,

while programming some more sounds with Synthix i found that my first impression was right. This must be one of the most analog sounding softsynths ever. Especially the low end is very impressive as this is where most of the other softsynths fail.
In some cases i get the same great feeling as i got while playing the gigantic Schmidt Eightvoice analog synth at this years Musikmesse which is now my personal reference for real analog sound.

In fact the arrival of Synthix was the reason for me to get the rest of the Xils synths (+ soundbanks) and sell a bunch of my current softsynths.

BTW i don't really mind if Synthix sounds 100% close to the original but it sounds the way i like which is more important for me.
In terms of versatility this comes close to semi-modular or modular synths IMO, especially when the layers are used.

BTW this was maybe the second time where i mentioned Dune AFAIK and the first time where i did a closer comparison which is not a bad thing IMO.

PS:
I have no problem if we continue talking about Synthix only but you started that kind of discussion. Anyway i'm waiting for v1.0 now so we will have enough to talk about then...
Oh and when you read my whole comparison closely you'll see that in most cases Synthix seems to be better except the comment about the CPU use which is a fact...

Ingo

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:43 pm

Hi guys

Thanks for dicussing the Synthix. It does not annoy us to be compared to any other synths : Music rely on diversity

About the multimbral features :

First at the age of Daws multitimbrality has lost a bit of its appeal : You can have as many instances of a synth as your CPU allows it in your daw.

One point is that its more handy to make your splits and layers into the same environment VS doubling tracks in your host or your subhost leike Kore 2 etc.

But the main point with the Synthix is -imho- the BEYOND multimbrality features, and especially the articulation and relationship^between the LAYERS, the KEYBOARDS ( or GUITAR MODE ) AND the PLAY MODES.

It IS the combination of all the above features wich gives the Synthix its abilities to build some instruments you COULD NOT find in any other synths. ( Please Note that the reverse is true some instruments can do things the Synthix just can't

)

I'll give a simple example of this ;

If you use both Keyboards, and with one choose the random mode, and the other the polycircular mode, one of the keyboards will randrobin the LAYERS, while the other will"sweep" thru all its layers. As every layer is completely independant, you can therefore imagine some intruments like everchanging chords, always moving techno stabs, or pure electronics "things".

Afaik, only the Synthix is able to create some instruments of this type.

If you push things a bit you cold also add a sequence, whose parameters will behave as modulators for every Synthix Layer targets.

So really you can imagine, and program, some both real complex AND still musical and fun to play (or sequence) instruments.

The Synthix is also very capable for example in the field of "random appearing" part of instruments, landscapes etc. Its not TOTAL random though, and you can more or less determine the randomness of such events.

Thas why I think that, if its of course possible to compare one by one the features of the Synthix with some other synths, it becomes more difficult if you're talking about the interoperability of modules and their musical translation into the realm of instruments

LtZ

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:57 pm

Lotuzia wrote: Thas why I think that, if its of course possible to compare one by one the features of the Synthix with some other synths, it becomes more difficult if you're talking about the interoperability of modules and their musical translation into the realm of instruments

LtZ

Hello Laurent,

exactly my point. I didn't want to compare all features to other synths but Dune (Oops, i did it again...) seemed to be the only synth which i know that has a comparable engine for the Unison. Of course the details are different but at least the basic idea is close IMO. Like i mentioned in my post i prefer the method like it's done in Synthix but i also understand why it works different in Dune (mentioned that name here last time, promised...). I don't want to go into details with that...

Best wishes,
Ingo

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:53 pm

Looks like Synthix v1.0 is finally out:
http://www.xils-lab.com/pages/Synthix_D ... llers.html

Just installed it. There is a big amount of additional factory presets like it was promised. Also the GUI look slightly "polished".

Ingo

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:24 pm

Thats right Ingo

SYNTHIX V 1.0. IS RELEASED :

Several minor bugs fixed
Some cosmetics fixed
More than 127 new presets, including some instruments replicating some presets made by Paul Wiffen ( THE MAN ) for the happy few who owned the extra original K7 bank once distributed in UK so many years ago.

So that the SYNTHIX Factory Library now include more than 260 patches !

We hope you will like them

You can DL the V 1.0 in the usual place

Thanks for reading,

LtZ

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:51 am

Hello Xavier, Simon and Laurent,

i have installed Synthix v1.0. The additional factory presets are great and the new GUi looks better than before.

Besides this i still have the problem with some of the presets from Simons commercial bank which i already reported before. If for example i use the preset called "ARP Stereo Taps" from that bank and use more than one note the CPU display in Ableton Live 8.2.2 maxes out and the sound gets drop-outs.
This uses 4 voices in the Upper layer and 2 voices in the Lower layer (for 1 note) so this should be not supposed to happen. When i deactivate the Lower layer/zone i still get drop outs with more than one note. Most other patches even with up to 6 Voice Unison do not produce this kind of problem. Same about some of my own pads/strings which use up to 4 voice unison which don't produce drop-outs even when all voices are used.

I have found that it gets better when i deactivate the "Poly" switch in the Arpeggiator setting of the Upper layer of that "ARP Stereo Taps" patch so maybe the problem is somehow related to that one. If i apply the same Arpeggiator setting to e.g. one of my Synth Brass patches i don't get this problem. Even with the Unison, FX and Arpeggiator turned off the CPU still goes up to 50% when playing fast notes (a single note!!). With one of my Brass sounds it is less than 10% when played the same way.

Based on this i didn't find an obvious reason for the problem so far.

Here are my specs again:
- CPU: Core 2 Quad Q6600
- 4GB RAM
- audio interface: Focusrite Saffire 24 Pro DSP (with Mix Control v2.2)
- OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit
- DAW: Ableton Live 8.2.2
- Synthix v1.0 (eLicenser version)

UPDATE:
When i deactivate all modulations in the Mod Matrix the CPU is at 50% maximum, even with 3 notes so the problem is somewhere in those modulations.

UPDATE:
It gets better when i deactivate the Modwheel -> ADSR1 Dec modulation. Really strange. When i adjust the ADSR1 Decay value manually there is no such problem, same when i use another source like e.g. LFO1.

I have also sent this as an email to Xavier now.

UPDATE:
Just got an email from Xavier. He will care about this but at the moment he'll take some holidays which is normal after that long time of working on Synthix.

Anyway most patches are working normally so this seems to be a special case. Like written in my last post this seems to happen when you modulate the Envelope Decay with the Modwheel (even if the Modwheel is not actually used...).

Ingo

xavier · Post by **xavier** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:18 am

Hi Ingo

Just sharing the email I sent you about this issue, other user may want to know :

Thanks for reminding me this problem. I didn't really forget it, but didn't find anything weird. What I'm thinking is that it is maybe related to the x64 version of the OS (on my macbook pro, whatever the application, I don't have this sort of issue)
When I tested it with Cubase4 on windows 7, I got glitches (and CPU led lighted) even if the CPU vu-meter was around 50%. I tried to remove a lot of functions (especially GUI) but without finding anything. So I wanted to test the x64 version on Cubase 5 (but needed to rebuild it, that's why I preferred to release the V1.0 before fixing this problem).

To be noticed : the PolyKB has the same behaviour (glitches on windows 7 with some application when the CPU meter is around 50%)

Anyway, your last edits could give me some more clues (and then maybe a v1.0.1 could be there soon, but I need some holidays, and my Family too ! so, maybe not before the end of August).

best regards
Xavier

theeyesoftruthd101m · Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:34 am

Hi,

why is not the Synthex Factory Bank inside?

This is what iam looking for.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:51 am

theeyesoftruthd101m wrote:Hi,

why is not the Synthex Factory Bank inside?

This is what iam looking for.

If you are using Win7 you might have to install the Synthix in a proper location, or run it with admin rights.

Please read the manual : Installation of the Sinthix in various OS, platforms etc

theeyesoftruthd101m · Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:01 am

@Lotuzia

iam on osx and there is no Synthex Factory Bank inside the patches.

what do you mean ?

metrosonic · Post by **metrosonic** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:19 am

I'm on OS X but there is nothing signposted as being the original factory bank. Paul Wiffen only supplied a very small number of patches (I believe it to be 7).

The marketing as part of the group buy stated "The V1, which will be released on July 21st will come with 250 presets, including some of the original presets from the Synthex,)"

And even the most recent post stated "More than 127 new presets, including some instruments replicating some presets made by Paul Wiffen ( THE MAN ) for the happy few who owned the extra original K7 bank once distributed in UK so many years ago.... So that the SYNTHIX Factory Library now include more than 260 patches !"

There is no doubt that the version 1 product contains over 260 patches but I think it would be fair to say that you've over stated the number of original Synthex factory patches contained within it. I've always been quick to defend XILS-Lab from carpers but in this instance I believe there to be a case. The as yet to be defined 'free gifts' issue left a sour taste in the mouth but this really does reek of hype.

This is such a pity because the Synthix really is my favourite VA so far. I don't mind that it chews up CPU cycles for breakfast because of the wonderful, unique and damn right musical sounds it makes.

Please no more misleading statements or empty undefined promises.

JM
------------
http://soundcloud.com/leftside-wobble

SYN'X 2.5 Released - Xils-Lab - (Multitimbral Synthex - intro discount-)