KVR Audio

JJ_Jettflow · Post by **JJ_Jettflow** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:12 pm

Aliens wrote:

JJ_Jettflow · Post by **JJ_Jettflow** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:16 pm

Aliens · Post by **Aliens** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:17 pm

And I totally believe you

JJ_Jettflow · Post by **JJ_Jettflow** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:18 pm

Aliens wrote:And I totally believe you

Its all good! Just having some fun with words!! Have a Great New year!

Aliens · Post by **Aliens** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:19 pm

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:35 pm

Aaaaanyway....

rezoneight wrote:Folks, the software industry is moving towards this model because it makes sense. It brings in a constant revenue stream where single sales do not anymore. All of this "discussion" happened when Adobe did the same thing with their products and guess what? People complained a lot about how they didn't want to pay a monthly fee for Adobe but nonetheless it was a great success because lots of other people like the convenience of having access to a an expanding and supported catalog of products for a given monthly fee. This same discussion happened when streaming music services started. Funny how now they've basically replaced the old model. It's the same reason so much iOS software is now ad driven.

It's ridiculous to try to make arguments about cost vs. single purchase options. For the $20 a month you get access to an expanding (not static) set of plugins you can choose to use at any time. There is simply no math that is going to make that equatable to a single purchase of a u-He plugin. Is the system perfect? No but the beautiful thing about a constant revenue stream is it gives them incentive to fix things that are broken (as they have already done). Complain (nicely) about that stuff because they're most likely going to listen but complaining about the way they are pricing it? That's just farting in a breeze.

Personally I think the devil is in the detail. Ideologically I'm opposed to subs, but that doesn't stop me subscribing to Dropbox Pro, MS Office, Spotify, Amazon Prime and Netflix. Each individual case represents good value to me. There is something about music-making however that is an extra barrier - you reduce the possibility of using past projects unless you stay current (unless you render our every version as audio). That's what keeps me from using any VI or FX subs model.

That said, I wouldn't ever say never, its just I haven't seen an offer yet that represents value. In the case of Roland, I'd be treating every plugin I didn't actually own as a demo license. There are of course other ways of looking at it - use it and render - it just doesn't suit my workflow and there is no compelling reason for me to buy into their model. They have great synths no doubt, but are light years away from a monopoly of great synths.

If they are to ever attract luddites like me, the price would have to drop to the point where those annual subs = a reasonable price for one plugin. As I say, there's other ways of looking at it and that's fine and good, but this is a specific point about broadening their base. I'm not sure exactly what that magic subs price is, but I'd say around half the current figure. But maybe a shade more, especially if they were a little more savvy about the way they marketed it. Turn it around, and say for $150 you buy any single plugin and get 12 months free plugin rental... just sounds more appealing to me than "pay your subs for 12 months like a good boy / girl and you'll get a special treat".

Not trying to convince anyone here of the merits of any of this. Only Roland know the numbers, if they have enough customers willing to pay this price, then all is good and things will stay as they are. They don't need me.

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:08 pm

For me, I just want the cloud service fully integrated with the System keyboards so that it is a complete package, then I'll be happy to subscribe and buy hardware to make the most of it.

I didn't see anyone answer if you can sell the plugins you earn through a year of service. That is also a consideration, I would like to be able to sell what I own, especially if I am also eventually selling the hardware to use it, it would add value to the hardware too.

I would also like to see the GUIs improved.

Frankly for me, the subscription model would be perfect, I can come up with $20 a month easier than I can come up with $240 all at once for a plugin. I also think the $240 for a plugin is too high, but whatever. If you consider half the price is for the plugin you buy, and half is for the plugins you rent, then it is like getting a synth for $120 and paying $120 for a year's rental. I know you spend the same money, but psychologically, it works better in my head.

cfanyc · Post by **cfanyc** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:08 pm

mholloway wrote:I'm no fan of Roland's Cloud, but I am sick of seeing people post bogus math followed by their dumb conclusion.

Comparing the cost of a U-He synth or other "purchase a license" synth to a subscription model is completely bogus, and if you can't figure that out, you need to go back to remedial school.

Yes, I know you get to "own" a synth at the end of some given period of time. That's a carrot Roland is using to attract people to the new trend of subscription service, and I understand that it isn't a compelling offer for many of you, or for myself. But it does not make your idiotic "math" arguments somehow add up.

You cannot formulate how much usage an average subscriber gets from the 9+ synths made available to them during that 12 month period, and yet that usage is exactly what the person is paying for, plain and simple. Posting multi-year figures for owning Roland synths against the ownership costs of other non-subscription synths is totally bogus and useless, because what people are paying for is the ability to access 9+ synths at any time during the year, NOT the carrot-dangling-ownership offered on top of that.

really? well let's break it down for you then:

i want to buy, own and use for ever the following 3 roland
synths:
- the juno 106
- the jupiter
- the d50
I do not give a sh*t for the rest of the roland cloud synths.

with the subscription model i need to spend $660 over 3 years

with current market prices for ownership
of equivalent quality synths (u-he , korg etc)
I would spend no more than $200-300.

Care to tell us what is bogus about the above?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:11 pm

That's my major issue with this system as well. If they happen to release a JP-8k emu, i'd really love to own that one. That single one. Now. Not after a year of (expensive) sub.

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:15 pm

OK< I just created an account for the trial, but how do I download the instruments, do I actually have to 'subscribe' first? It is a bit confusing.

Or, do you have to 'subscribe' to do the trial and give them your credit info?

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Also, how do you know they won't just pull the plug at some stage when they find it isn't working for them, and leave you with equity in synths that you can't spend?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:26 pm

braj wrote:Also, how do you know they won't just pull the plug at some stage when they find it isn't working for them, and leave you with equity in synths that you can't spend?

I'm sure they won't do that from one day to the other...

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:30 pm

chk071 wrote:
braj wrote:Also, how do you know they won't just pull the plug at some stage when they find it isn't working for them, and leave you with equity in synths that you can't spend?
I'm sure they won't do that from one day to the other...

So, you aren't sure then

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:31 pm

Next stage: you're going to be able to rent a computer, while living in a rented place, so you can rent an OS to work with and rent all the programs you work with. Great future. I love renting stuff!

At the end of the month you get just enough of your wage to pay for the popcorn for the whole month.

And on paper it looks very enticing. But it is NOT.

I used to buy a synth, worked hard for it and got it. It was mine then and forever. Renting is just a capitalist way of making more money for services. It is bad. And it's going to get worse if you support it.

People who support this stuff... politely said - think about it once more. Think really hard if you have to. Please. Don't support the BS. In the long run it takes away far more of your hard earned money.

Roland Cloud synths are so badly programmed, buggy and just a disgrace to Roland's name. I'm a Roland fan. Have been since early 90s. But I will never buy any of these plastic cr*p they put out lately or any of the "emulations" they put out. They use too much CPU for what you get and sounding just a tad better than some Synthedit generic synth. It's really just a disgrace for Roland. So sad. Roland is nothing but a name these days.