HALion 7

[IvyBirds]

And don´t forget that MPE is essential for expressive, real-time live performances, and Cubase is notoriously ill-suited for this purpose.

No it's not, you just simply use the Inspector on each instrument track to do whatever you want with your MPE Controller

This actually holds tremendous workflow enhancements for live performance as since it's in the VST host itself you can simply replace the instruments on the fly and they will behave the same

Or you can simply and easily have a bunch of different instruments respond to your MPE controller differently and simply save that whole thing as a preset right in Cubase.

[tekknovator]

I don't think that's what he meant with expression. Cubase is a studio tool, not a live show tool. I played and sometimes still play liveshows where the electronic sound stuff is hosted in cubase, it always has to be the midi clock boss and that alone makes some scenarios hard to achieve. But that would be for another thread.

[SLiC]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

[agharta]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

Exactly. I am not buying Cubase with all the implied cost and learning curve just for Note Expression.

[budweiser]

production-expert.com used to be protools-expert, so no wonder PT is king. Take the same survey on a cubase forum and results may vary slightly...

[SLiC]

Sampling is different in different DAWS, set up of sidechain to sample VSTs and I did have issues with seeing the live inputs from my X32 when used in Live but OK in Bitwig and Studio One…I am sure it can be done in Live but didn’t peruse it!

[IvyBirds]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

And MPE is used by probably less than 1% of users, why do you think it's so rare to find controllers and Synths with even basic Poly AT?

Cubase Fully supports MPE the way MPE is intended to be implemented in the VST3 spec. I can use any MPE in HALion7 and any other plugin that is capable of using it

And again I say if MPE is so important to you why are you not already using Cubase the DAW that offers more polyphonic expression than any other?

Use HALion7 or don't use HALion7, I really could not care less

But please be accurate, HALion7 fully supports MPE and it works beautifully and flawlessly, you just chose to use a DAW that doesn't support the way MPE is supposed to work in VST3 instruments

But thanks for the link that says Protools is the bestest, most awesomist, and more gooder DAW that ever existed even if it uses it's own plugin format

[IvyBirds]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

Exactly. I am not buying Cubase with all the implied cost and learning curve just for Note Expression.

So what you are saying is polyphonic expression is just not very important to you, MPE or otherwise

[SLiC]

But please be accurate, HALion7 fully supports MPE and it works beautifully and flawlessly, you just chose to use a DAW that doesn't support the way MPE is supposed to work in VST3 instruments

So to be accurate, you are saying HALion7 only supports MPE if you use it in Cubase?

That would be very limiting as the vast majority of people don't use Cubase.

Why not simply offer universal support? If you buy a standalone instrument form Steinberg you should not have to buy Cubase to run it as an MPE instrument- it either is or it isn't MPE 'stand alone'.

(I am resisting the urge to tell you all of the reasons why I don't use Cubase anymore and switched to Studio One...there are plenty of threads on that already and this thread is about HALion...Cubase shouldn't be required!)

[IvyBirds]

But please be accurate, HALion7 fully supports MPE and it works beautifully and flawlessly, you just chose to use a DAW that doesn't support the way MPE is supposed to work in VST3 instruments

So to be accurate, you are saying HALion7 only supports MPE if you use it in Cubase?

That would be very limiting as the vast majority of people don't use Cubase.

Why not simply offer universal support? If you buy a standalone instrument form Steinberg you should not have to buy Cubase to run it as an MPE instrument- it either is or it isn't MPE 'stand alone'.

(I am resisting the urge to tell you all of the reasons why I don't use Cubase anymore and switched to Studio One...there are plenty of threads on that already and this thread is about HALion...Cubase shouldn't be required!)

What I am saying is that HALion7 supports the full VST3 specifications

It will run fully in any DAW or host that supports VST3 hosting

The sad reality is that not every developer supports VST3 fully or even at all. Many support VST3 in a limited way

As a result not every DAW supports the full capabilities of VST3 including things like VST Note Expressions

It's not the fault of Steinberg that users choose to use DAWs like Studio One that don't fully support VST3 specifications

What's amazing is end users of Studio One give Presonus a pass for not supporting VST3 when they absolutely could, but choose to crap on Steinberg instead for fully doing so with their DAW products

It's simple really I am a Synthesizer based composer and musician, as such MIDI is very important to me, as such I use Cubase because it has the deepest implementation of MIDI including note expressions

If you choose not to that's fine, it's your call but own up to it

[agharta]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

Exactly. I am not buying Cubase with all the implied cost and learning curve just for Note Expression.

So what you are saying is polyphonic expression is just not very important to you, MPE or otherwise

What I am saying is that Cubase is not important to me at all, that my DAW of choice supports MPE already and comes with a bunch of MPE instruments included and that this conversation has ended.

[mothra]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

Wow they sampled a whopping 6600 users across the entire world, not to mention they used to be a PT catering site in the past, and are only going to get the geeks who have enough free time to sit and fill out web polls, not the folks that don't bother with the internet that are busy getting their work done.

[Gam456]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

Wow they sampled a whopping 6600 users across the entire world, not to mention they used to be a PT catering site in the past, and are only going to get the geeks who have enough free time to sit and fill out web polls, not the folks that don't bother with the internet that are busy getting their work done.

I'm pretty sure, the result is oriented on audio enginer and not on music creation and composition

[SLiC]

But please be accurate, HALion7 fully supports MPE and it works beautifully and flawlessly, you just chose to use a DAW that doesn't support the way MPE is supposed to work in VST3 instruments

So to be accurate, you are saying HALion7 only supports MPE if you use it in Cubase?

That would be very limiting as the vast majority of people don't use Cubase.

Why not simply offer universal support? If you buy a standalone instrument form Steinberg you should not have to buy Cubase to run it as an MPE instrument- it either is or it isn't MPE 'stand alone'.

(I am resisting the urge to tell you all of the reasons why I don't use Cubase anymore and switched to Studio One...there are plenty of threads on that already and this thread is about HALion...Cubase shouldn't be required!)

What I am saying is that HALion7 supports the full VST3 specifications

It will run fully in any DAW or host that supports VST3 hosting

The sad reality is that not every developer supports VST3 fully or even at all. Many support VST3 in a limited way

As a result not every DAW supports the full capabilities of VST3 including things like VST Note Expressions

It's not the fault of Steinberg that users choose to use DAWs like Studio One that don't fully support VST3 specifications

What's amazing is end users of Studio One give Presonus a pass for not supporting VST3 when they absolutely could, but choose to crap on Steinberg instead for fully doing so with their DAW products

It's simple really I am a Synthesizer based composer and musician, as such MIDI is very important to me, as such I use Cubase because it has the deepest implementation of MIDI including note expressions

If you choose not to that's fine, it's your call but own up to it

I guess I want my instruments that run ‘standalone’ (no DAW) to be playable from an MPE keyboard, why make a VST run standalone otherwise?

[SLiC]

Cubase may be great for some (I dislike it) and may be an MPE alternative for HALion is some respects, but Cubase is used by less than 10% of DAW users* so HALion needs MPE support for the other 90%+ of users...

*https://www.production-expert.com/produ ... ird%20spot.

Wow they sampled a whopping 6600 users across the entire world, not to mention they used to be a PT catering site in the past, and are only going to get the geeks who have enough free time to sit and fill out web polls, not the folks that don't bother with the internet that are busy getting their work done.

I'm pretty sure, the result is oriented on audio enginer and not on music creation and composition

Not that it matters, but there are dozens of on line polls that show cubase is really not that dominant anymore. That doesn’t mean it’s not a great DAW, just that there are many great DAWs that suit different workflows or hardware set ups…so making a VST that doesn’t play nicely with all DAWs is a bit limiting…