KVR Audio

DWb · Post by **DWb** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:42 pm

videzyrah wrote:Can anyone recommend any beat slicer/chopper tool(s)?
I just recently delved into the FL slicer and was considering purchasing the Zero-X product but wasn't sure if there were alternatives; sounds like there are.....????

EnergyXT could be handy - the sampler has a pretty capable slicer and you can combine it with the arpeggiators and other midi effects to remove some of the more repetitive micro-programming.

ohm · Post by **ohm** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:14 pm

I can't resist mentioning that LiveSlice was designed to work perfectly with modular hosts like Energy XT - the LiveSlice MIDI CC sequencer, the input recording and the 8 outputs are just so easy to work with in Energy XT.
It's the perfect host for experimentalists - well, that and AudioMulch, but there's not much sequencing going on in the mulch...

bernhardtjeff · Post by **bernhardtjeff** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:13 am

i was listening to "ultra-visitor" today...

what helps me to make this kind of stuff is to use the dfx plugins (buffer override synth and transverb, specifically) but not on whole tracks. tracktion has clip based effects, so i just put an instance on 1 bar or so of audio to mess it up in a predictable way without having to manually slice that bar up, then do that for various bars all over the place. it's a great time saver and doesn't have the result of sounding like i just put the whole track though the "squarepusherer plugin" or something. i've found that plugins like supatrigga and livecut, as fun as they are to mess around with, don't produce results that are very usable to me. i rarely find myself using them. but stuff like bufferoveride, where you have control over what's happening, used in the way i described, are great time-savers.

also, play a track with a good playable chorus (classic chorus is good) or playable delay (mdsp's analog delay is good) or something simple and improvise by riding the controls and record your automation, then bounce and use the good bits. this is good because it adds some spontaneity to the track as opposed to the randomness of some plugins or the repetitiveness of a bunch of lfo-controlled stuff.

also, if you listen to squarepusher's more crazy-ass stuff, it's not just random effects here and there. he really hears that stuff first and then programs it. so i don't think it's as simple as just dropping a plugin like livecut on a track or something. you really need to just take the time, hours and hours, and edit and re-edit manually.

DWb · Post by **DWb** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:12 am

bernhardtjeff wrote:also, if you listen to squarepusher's more crazy-ass stuff, it's not just random effects here and there. he really hears that stuff first and then programs it. so i don't think it's as simple as just dropping a plugin like livecut on a track or something. you really need to just take the time, hours and hours, and edit and re-edit manually.

YES!

Also, bear in mind that writing highly complex beats will no more make you a Squarepusher-like genius than playing a guitar through a wah-wah pedal will make you Hendrix - it's at least as much in what he does with the beats, the sounds, the melodies, the flow and so on that make the music good. There's far too much second rate glitch / drill and bass that comes out because people focus too hard on the micro level and making the music complex, and not enough on making it any good on a macro level...

Sorry to come off as a grumpy old man on this, but I think it's a point that needs making.

ohm · Post by **ohm** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:41 am

Hear hear. With randomizers you get musical results about 5% of the time and it takes human ears to identify what works. You need to control / constrain the randomizing process for it to make sense.

Forgive me for my endless LiveSlice promotion, but this whole discussion centers on the very reason why I created LiveSlice - to take complex, glitchy beat programming seriously and allow for full control over the details, while making the process less painful.
You don't need hours and hours of endless tweaking when you have that level of visual feedback allowing you to quickly identify the sounds in the gui.
bernhardtjeff mentions playable chorus and delay effects - these can be sequenced in LiveSlice using track envelopes so you can very easily add heavy chorus to the snares only for instance.
If you haven't already, please try the demo and let me know what you think - I would value the opinion of other Squarepusher fans

This is as much about improving the product as it is about selling it, so don't flame me for sales takin' please.

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:45 pm

not going to read 5 pages..

might generate some usable passages with revos -
http://www.xoxos.net/vsti.html

runagate · Post by **runagate** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:57 pm

bernhardtjeff wrote:also, if you listen to squarepusher's more crazy-ass stuff, it's not just random effects here and there. he really hears that stuff first and then programs it. so i don't think it's as simple as just dropping a plugin like livecut on a track or something. you really need to just take the time, hours and hours, and edit and re-edit manually.

This is really the most important thing to keep in mind when sitting down at your computer.

The thing that trips me up is that the learning curve. Figuring out what tool that I have
could possibly make the sound I want - that's not too bad; I know my plugs pretty well.

But the learning curve for making even a familiar piece of kit do precisely what I
want it to is pretty daunting. And about 10 minutes down the road you're immersed in
technical details and the inspiration is gone. It's not much like just grabbing an instrument
and banging it out.

The secret is to drink lots of caffeine and sit down away from the evil mind-destroying
computer and plot out what you need. It's good practive. You have to develope your own
way of organizing your ideas - it's not really a score or notation - some people need
visual info in front of them, some just need a shorthand to jog their memories.

Then to prep making your new masterpiece make a file, organize your folders or whatever,
load all the instruments, effects and samples you think you'll need, maybe even create the
presets and patches you're going to use. Create and midi routing schemes you're going to
need ahead of time.

Then when it comes time to actually compose or record you're going to be able to
go more rapidly from imagination to actual audio. It's a way of maintaining the flow
of music as opposed to getting tripped up by technical minutiae that are really what takes
up all our time.

It's really what separates the people who make repetetive, uninspired schlock from the
makers of masterpieces.

- runagate

waiting man · Post by **waiting man** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:17 pm

all answers here.

liars&ashes · Post by **liars&ashes** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:50 pm

----I used to have an Ensoniq EPS16+, and when I loaded up 8 samples or whatever it could handle, and set the loop points on sample #8 too close together, like 0.002 apart or something, then held down a key, it would spit out the most messed up high speed random R2D2 raping Depeche Mode while Aphex Twin watches kind of sounds ever. All 8 samples would playback forward backward pitch shifted and glitched in no particular order, and at that playback speed everything sounded like a beat. It got to where I spent more time loading up 8 samples and doing that than anything else with that keyboard, it was that entertaining.

Jeff

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:21 pm

quantize wrote:Hallooooooooo, dont any of you people read the news here? this thing even has a squarepusher parameter..its the bollocks...mac and pc..incredible work by mdsp..screw hours of anal programming a drum kit..stick a coupla rare breaks in this baby and play...

http://mdsp.smartelectronix.com/

'LiveCut 0.8 summer beta preview'

excellent!

using this with brianbrian's idea of sampling mangled loops could be a really nice way of doing this.

note: if you're using this in Orion.. it doesnt work as an insert, try using it as a send... works well this way.

just create a normal, yet sparse rhythm, then turn up the livecut to max, and pick your jaw off the ground.. hehe.. it sounds a lot more 'intelligent' than the other slice 'n dice effects plugins I've tried.

Boulotaur2024 · Post by **Boulotaur2024** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:18 pm

droneofkc wrote:Sorry for having to say this guys, but it'll always be the most important thing to avoid to much "randomness". Twist your shit manually...programm or fuckin' render it the way YOU WANT IT to be...
Somebody out there will always be advanced enough to tell, if you put some effort in your work or if you just had a couple of loops thrown in some "Destroyalizer"....
Check out a piece of my work to figure what I mean....

http://www.riskindust.de/demo/dotm1204firstthing.swf

Greetz,
DRONE

---

Great track

Michael Allan Cumming · Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:05 pm

I use the "multi-out" VSTi option for FL Studio in Cubase SX.

I'll assign a seperate channel to each drum and then automate effects on each channel.

Some of my favourites are Bionic delay, Reversinator, dGlitch Blue, the DFX series, Deconstructor, Granulizer, etc.

This allows you to save tons of time exporting loops and re-sequencing them.

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:23 pm

CypherOne wrote:whenever I hear a Squarepusher track, I don't think "how did he do that?", I think "why did he do that?"...

yep the first obstacle is mental, not technical

that's why after years I still have to hear other artists making beats like Squarepusher, if you like funk blues jazz samba you know what I mean, Squarepusher beats are alive,

but one may like autechre or aphex more, they're cool but cold to me as beats

sorry maybe I hijacked

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:27 pm

splonki.
be all you can be.

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:28 pm

the few, the proud, the splonki.

How to make crazy squarepusher/aphex twin beats.