How to test a compressor plugin ...

[urosh]

Hi fellow idiots and intelectually chalenged,

1)inverted+non summ testing is last thing I would do
2)I could develop testing metod ,that would seem reasonable,
that would show that Neve sucks and Behringer is great
3)Blockfish, Endorphin, Voxformer and Marquis have
feedback configuration options, just to mention those
I know for
4)Of course you can have key ( sidechain ) inputs on
feedback comp
http://www.mercenary.com/smarresc2fil.html
http://www.mercenary.com/puaumc.html
and most probably
http://www.mercenary.com/dismodel8.html

cheerz
urosh

[fritzman]

Is this funny,

a compressor is a compressor is a compressor. A wire is a wire is a wire. A dB is a dB is a dB. A ms is a ms is a ms.
IF IT SOUNDS GOOD, IT SOUNDS GOOD, IT SOUNDS GOOD, IT SOUNDS GOOD!

Sorry, had to say that. so what's the best compressor for exactly that?


Have a nice sunday, FRitz

[fritzman]

BTW,

I liked the thread with the audio examples way more. Because everybody was at least able to say "I LIKE IT" or "I DON'T LIKE IT".
Obviously lotsa people FEEL uncomfortable with the fact that someone "measures away" their good feelings.


Best wishes, FRitz

[fritzman]

I think the real problem here is that on the one hand a scientific idea was uttered while on the other hand subjective words were used. That lead to misunderstanding. What if we try to discuss a most technical set of compressor tests everybody who is able to read a few numbers on a meter or some tool can apply to any compressor? Like in the "analog world" things like frequency response or noise level?
What about:
- frequency response
- distortion of various signals at various frequencies
- impulse response at various frequencies

Just for a constructive start for some objective measurements. Would be cool if someone who knows all the measurement stuff (aciddose?) could point us all to some appropriate tools we all could use. Free tools would be best, obviously. Food for thought.


Best wishes, FRitz

[martian]

Sorry WM - you don't seem to understand what i'm talking about. I'm not actually taking sides - just that this is interesting information (to me) that helps me choose a compressor for a particular job. I understand perfectly WHY some compressors null and others don't.

BUT - i've been surprised by some compressors that are not able to do this phase cancellation trick. That means that these compressors are 'damaging' the sound below the threshold.

you dont make any sense, simply because you are not being honest. your subsequent posts whilst trying to heal the wound left in your op are balanced with little ego boosting insults playing up to your false confidence.

i realise i have issues too (quote me), otherwise i wouldnt still feel the need to be responding. ill fight it and stop now. in fact please make it harder and post something really anoying

goodday.

[Kingston]

There has been at least one completely idiotic blurp here by now and I have to elaborate on it.

To whoever who said compressors shouldn't have any distortion and that they should be separate plugins,

I whole-heartedly and utterly disagree.

The complex interaction between envelope detectors, VCAs(or whatever volume control design you choose), input/output stages etc, these are some the most important things to take into account when designing compressors. It just so happens to be that in order to make them sound good and "pleasing to the ear" some of these stages and their INTERACTIONS create distortions of all kinds. You simply can't turn them off and "have them as a separate plugin", and if you could you would probably destroy the sound. This especially concerns the old true and tested designs we all know and love.


The rule, of course, doesn't apply if the distortion is designed to be separate signal path, which is common in modern design. (yet you still couldn't have it outside the plugin as it's still dependant on the compressors internal INTERACTIONS).

[bmanic]

If anyone wants to interpret this as an attack on anyone, I'm sorry you feel that way but you are wrong. I say what I think - this is a public forum and I don't have to protect or endorse any commercial product. I'm just interested in tools and techniques that help me make music.

I don't think people takes it as an attack rather people understand that you don't seem to fully understand the issue and those that found it 'interesting' seem to have the same trouble understanding how things work and why. That phase reverse trick is not completely useless but without truly understanding why certain processors do things it is not much more than "aha! something happened!" thing, which one should learn to hear over the monitors anyways. That's all..

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

Sorry to cause all this "damage". No "harm" intended I realise I have made several serious mistakes here, such as:

1/ sharing an idea relating to VST effects which I found interesting
2/ expecting all KVRians to be able to read and understand what I am saying in context
3/I failed to use the correct KVR language protocol for defending a logical argument. (FCUK YOU! FCUK YOU VERY MUCH!)

In future I shall try to withhold original thoughts, and speak in words of one syllable.

Vox-en-go GOOD ... unt unt ...

This however is rather lame.. Tuna pretty much got the point trough why people reacted to your choise of words. You seriously think your post is "un-biased" and fair towards all? I think not but hey, maybe your english is even worse than mine!

- bManic

[bmanic]

I think the real problem here is that on the one hand a scientific idea was uttered while on the other hand subjective words were used. That lead to misunderstanding.

Exactly! Well put fritzman.

- bManic

[martian]

one final thing.

I've been testing EQ's with this trick too. Also, convolution based processors like TapeBus are really interesting to see what they are doing ...

especially for eqs download something like: http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1287.html and use the FFT to get a better picture of what happens to the phase/amplitude of a signal through plugs at various settings.

also read and test this: http://www.sonalksis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24

all the best,

[greendoor]

I get it. I get it. This isn't the place to discuss different ideas or techniques. Forgive me for trying. (FCUK YOU! FCUK YOU VERY MUCH! if that makes anyone feel better). Who do you have to suck up to around here?

[bmanic]

I get it. I get it. This isn't the place to discuss different ideas or techniques. Forgive me for trying. (FCUK YOU! FCUK YOU VERY MUCH! if that makes anyone feel better). Who do you have to suck up to around here?

No need to be a drama queen. Just read again things said here and maybe re-think your own behaviour?

- bManic

[greendoor]

I'm trying to learn what IS acceptable behaviour here at KVR. Apparantly profuse profanity is acceptable. Apparantly personal attacks are acceptable. Apparantly expressing an opinion is unnacceptable.

[aciddose]

when people have said (including myself, though i did say optional) that distortion/saturation and filtering should be seperate, i think 'optional' was more inteneded. i also think they were refering purely to the effect that is applied without relation to the actual compression stages. for instance, i'm sure various compressor plugins which 'claim' to 'emulate' tubes, infact just apply some kind of saturation effect at various stages. honestly, this might seem like a fairly good 'emulation' for many people, but it isnt the only effect a tube or whatever might apply to the signal, and it really should be option since it is not related to the compression at all. well, unless you wanted to count saturation as a form of compression, but beside that point.

i'm very aware of the basic effects that occur when you are compressing a signal, with any method. obviously fast reacting compression is almost exactly like saturation. but in this case saturation seems to have been observed with very light settings, and no option was found for disabling the seemingly obvious seperate saturation effect.

as i stated before, i'm certain the ideal compressor would have it as an option, and wouldnt force you to use it like the processors in question do.

greendoor; we seem to have posted at the same time so this is an edit.

i dont think profanity is acceptable, obviously not. my use of profanity was to express something which i felt might not be understood if explained using more complex langauge. i could have explained in some depth what my frustrations were, why i felt that way and i might have asked politely, as you did, if they could reconsider thier position on the issues i mentioned. words like f**k, shit, and phrases like dirty-monkey-cocksucker are all good english, if used when required. profanity really in my opinion refers to when they are used profusely, without any requirement. there is certainly no ban on expressing one's opinions, and using any method which it is the best intent of the expressor to provide understanding to the expressee, if that makes sence.

[bmanic]

I'm trying to learn what IS acceptable behaviour here at KVR. Apparantly profuse profanity is acceptable. Apparantly personal attacks are acceptable. Apparantly expressing an opinion is unnacceptable.

Look, you take everything much too personal. Just because some people critizised your choise of words (IMHO rightly so) you don't have to go all defensive (which you did) and now you're a drama queen. Rather silly if you ask me.

A lot of people also pointed out to you WHY your method of phase cancellation is nearly useless but did you read that, did you learn anything? No, you just kept being defensive.

I don't get it..

- bManic