All new MacPros are quads!!

[VicDiesel]

Looks heavy...

It is, and the handles are not nice on your hands.

On the other hand, my G5 is placed a bit elevated so that I can take the right side panel off without moving it, and I never have to lift it. The internal layout is quite nice.

Victor.

[DHR53]

I have one also... It's sort of like having "Kronos" under my desk... whwn I first got it, I was expecting it to "grow" one night, smash through the roof of my house... and attack the city!

[BONES]

Not to keep beating the... well actually yes, to keep beating the dead horse: what does that price differential work out to if you buy third-party memory instead of Apple memory? I cheerfully concede that Apple way overprices its RAM.

See, this I don't understand. You cheerfully admit that Apple rip you off on some things but prefer to believe that in other areas they are competitive. Why exactly would that be the case? Anyway, if I were to do that I may as well go and build a PC from scratch and see just how big a rip-off every proprietary system is.
The big difference with Apple is they don't differentiate between business and personal customers. If I buy an HP or IBM workstation I get dedicated support from the workstation branch of their business which is serious, minimum down-time, on-site support. With Apple you are at the whim of the guy you bought it from which is why I think their penetration into the serious pro market is so small. [Or maybe that's just the dodgy guy who sells into our market here?]

On the other hand, my G5 is placed a bit elevated so that I can take the right side panel off without moving it, and I never have to lift it. The internal layout is quite nice.

Same with most workstation. e.g. With an HP workstation you don't need a tool to remove any major component - PCI cards, HDD's all have brackets with closures that just unclip. Their cases are really, really good and the latest generation are the quietest computers I have ever come across. I imagine most of you guys aren't exposed to much of that kind of stuff as its not sold through normal channels but Apple are no further ahead in that department than anyone else. In fact the Shuttle I just got to replace my old Soltek case is beautifully designed and incredibly efficient. I'm going looking for a new Shuttle tonight, I can't wait to see how far they have come in the last couple of years. They now offer 400W power supplies in those tiny, little cases.

[VicDiesel]

The big difference with Apple is they don't differentiate between business and personal customers.

And that is good.

Victor.

[egbert]

The big difference with Apple is they don't differentiate between business and personal customers.

And that is good.

HP and IBM are not Dell. So you're point would be ... ?

[Borogove]

Not to keep beating the... well actually yes, to keep beating the dead horse: what does that price differential work out to if you buy third-party memory instead of Apple memory? I cheerfully concede that Apple way overprices its RAM.

See, this I don't understand. You cheerfully admit that Apple rip you off on some things but prefer to believe that in other areas they are competitive. Why exactly would that be the case?

I "prefer to believe" it because someone else helpfully did some research that indicates it to be the case. Why exactly, looking at that data, would you *not* prefer to believe it?

And as I've repeatedly stated, I'm not an Apple partisan, and my primary machine is a Dell. I personally prefer Windows 2K or XP to OS X, so I don't buy Apple.

In the interests of full disclosure, I should state that I share a budget with an Apple shareholder, and so I'm always pleased to see AAPL stock rising, but not so much so that I'd, you know, make a false statement in hopes of pumping the stock.

[machinesworking]

I "prefer to believe" it because someone else helpfully did some research that indicates it to be the case. Why exactly, looking at that data, would you *not* prefer to believe it?

Apple made a business move that affected his office workflow, and he hates them now. Pretty much sums it up. It's kind of like talking to some guy who worked for Netscape about Microsoft!

[egbert]

I "prefer to believe" it because someone else helpfully did some research

but i have teh keyboard n mouce frum my laast pee cee n e way and no one needs a ghey $260 case fopr a conmpytrer so i use my old peece ov cdriftwood so yur like four hunred bux wrong pluys who pais for winblows so thats another $150 so itsthe same price and if u buy7 appl you have the big ghey steel case thatas like 2x a big as bmy driftwood

So what - you're an illiterate pirate (Aargh!) on that forum

[VicDiesel]

HP and IBM are not Dell.

Don't be so bloody literal-minded.

Victor.

[Lunch Money]

Victor, pricing and marketing strategy don't necessarily affect support strategy, which was the point you're allegedly addressing. Yes, many in this thread are talking about pricing policies. However, BONES' specific point was actually more about support and not about the retailing approach.

The person whose journal you quoted has the sheen of legitimacy, and who am I to say? But what makes his journal or opinion more valid than another person with a high-tech blog and credentials who believes that Apple's approach is wrong?

I don't "get" this business of quoting supposed experts instead of just exercising some independent critical thinking. Maybe I'm just an egomaniac, but I think that my informed opinion is just as valid as any other informed opinion.

Greg

[VicDiesel]

However, BONES' specific point was actually more about support and not about the retailing approach.

I didnt' get his argument. With Apple you're at the whim of the guy you bought it from? Only for warranty repair. I doubt that the on-site repairs Bones is talking about are the warranty type. He probably pays for them. You can pay someone for Apple suport too. Maybe not Apple itself.

The person whose journal you quoted has the sheen of legitimacy, and who am I to say? But what makes his journal or opinion more valid than another person with a high-tech blog and credentials who believes that Apple's approach is wrong?

Joel is an opinionated bastard and often silly, but always entertaining. It amused me to post that contrary opinion.

Victor.

[egbert]

HP and IBM are not Dell.

Don't be so bloody literal-minded.

The point Bones made was that some of the better PC IT firms (he specifically mentioned HP and IBM) still supply quality service with their workstations. You made reference to someone moaning about Dell using this market segmentation as a strategy to filch more money from their business customers. Your comment was Irrelevant whether you can acknowledge it or not. The fact that you are now calling me names is a bit of a giveaway.

[johnnytluxury]

To 'be so bloody literal-minded' is not name calling, its a mere momentary description of your actions. At which point it would be most poignant to note that you are being obtuse and overly sensitive. Somehow I think of Zinedine Zidane's notorious headbutt with Marco falling over as if he was hit with a two ton truck. Not to mention you called Borogove an "illiterate pirate". Just to point this out.

[egbert]

To 'be so bloody literal-minded' is not name calling, its a mere momentary description of your actions. At which point it would be most poignant to note that you are being obtuse and overly sensitive.

So I take it you are state man rather than a trait man? You have disposed with dispositions perhaps?

Not to mention you called Borogove an "illiterate pirate". Just to point this out.

Funny that you mentioned it then.

It was phrased as a question but I inadvertently omitted the question mark. I wondered where he was coming from deliberately writing with so many errors (when obviously this is an affectation since he writes perfectly well here) and the "driftwood" and "who pays for windows" bits seemed as if they might have been spoken as much with a cutlass between the teeth as with a tongue in the cheek (easy when you don't have too many teeth I hasten to add).

Your reply here, Sir, positively reeks of pedantry and, not surprisingly, evades the issue of whether some of the other vendors of dual Woodcrest workstations (which is what the MacPros clearly are) might offer better after sales service than Apple. This is the Hardware, Setup and System Configuration forum afterall.

We can all work out the relative pricing of the MacPro vs a "roll your own" /Dell/HP/IBM workstation with these sort of specs (since the Mac is using commodity PC bits - except for the crappy mouse etc). The other factors to consider are the OS/apps package and the aftersales service. I wouldn't want to be dealing with Dell customer support for mine either.

[johnnytluxury]

Wait, did you call me 'sir'?? Ill have your head in a vice!!!!!