Dark Ambient recording techniques?

[eduardo_b]

Focussing more on the OP's question, I guess you've really got to determine what you mean by 'dark ambient' before committing to a 'methodology'. Like I already said, I use the term to differentiate from something else (other ambient) rather than as an indicator of specific genre, and my use of 'ambient' in the first place is very specific; the connotation of 'ambience' as it relects an effectively passive exposure to an 'environment' or even 'landscape'.

Most interesting. Thanks for sharing your philosophy and work style for this genre...if one can call it that.

This "what is ambient" theme was a recurring one on the mailing list I spent a year or so on. The passive aural landscape approach, which I think defines true "ambient," was old-fashioned, if you will, to many on the list, who thought anything could be ambient if it has a drone or two. This seemed silly to me because what one is left with is everything from industrial sounds to percussion-dominated pieces that were anything but passive. So your point on this is well taken.

As originally defined by Eno, ambient was part of the environment, so one would become aware of it and then not. Ambient music, using this definition, would slip in and out of one's awareness, and its volume was almost in the background, like the rest of the immediate environment.

So I think you're completely right that one has to define what is meant by the term before it's possible to create music, or perhaps more accurately, a soundscape that creates a unique ambience in which to be. Eno maintains that ambient is not meant to be loud but rather low in volume so it can create an aural landscape. Many disagree, but I am quite taken by this approach and find it really does create a pleasing environment within which to relax, read and enjoy the moment.

I would be very interested in hearing samples of your music if you are inclined to sharing them with others. And that of anyone here who has the same inclination.

Really great thread.

[whyterabbyt]

I would be very interested in hearing samples of your music if you are inclined to sharing them with others. And that of anyone here who has the same inclination.

music

gp5, and scrape, and also r'lyeh sea shanty are probably the most typical of what Ive described. the others have elements of the same composition 'philosophy', including static, and rhevoks, although they're less 'ambient'. whatever tha is

[whyterabbyt]

and having pimped some tracks...

This "what is ambient" theme was a recurring one on the mailing list I spent a year or so on. The passive aural landscape approach, which I think defines true "ambient," was old-fashioned, if you will, to many on the list, who thought anything could be ambient if it has a drone or two. This seemed silly to me because what one is left with is everything from industrial sounds to percussion-dominated pieces that were anything but passive. So your point on this is well taken.

I would say point out that I consider 'passive' to be descriptive of the 'viewer' rather than the 'landscape'.

As originally defined by Eno, ambient was part of the environment, so one would become aware of it and then not. Ambient music, using this definition, would slip in and out of one's awareness, and its volume was almost in the background, like the rest of the immediate environment.

I think, though, that there are some environments which demand attention...

eg this 'side project' track

Really great thread.

Indeed.

[eduardo_b]

I would say point out that I consider 'passive' to be descriptive of the 'viewer' rather than the 'landscape'.

But isn't the very raison d'être of ambient to be passive? Active listening is the focus of the efforts of most musicans (hardware or software), whereas ambient -- in the most traditional sense -- is about creating the aural landscape "inactively." The sounds and textures are, on one hand, interesting and hopefully pleasing, but also subtle enough to create a mood or place without being the focus. It seems to me it might be difficult to be a passive viewer (listener) without the music also having passive qualities.

I think, though, that there are some environments which demand attention...

Absolutely, but not necessarily continual. I know I've posted this elsewhere, but the art on the wall analogy seems fitting because it works on the same principle. You can enjoy the art when paying attention to it, but also enjoy it as an awareness of it being there on the wall without paying attention to it. I think that was Eno's point about ambient music streaming in and out of the listener's awareness of the space in which he or she is.

eg this 'side project' track

"we are sorry; this page does not exist. please return to http://www.viablehybrid.com"

[eduardo_b]

time stretch the hell out of it...making a 5 second sound become, say a minute long.

You're doing this within the host (Cubase, Live,...?) or a plug-in? Changing BPM or...? I'm looking for various ways to accomplish this -- thus my curiosity about how you go about it.

[whyterabbyt]

"we are sorry; this page does not exist. please return to http://www.viablehybrid.com"

bugger. i'll have to sort that from home.

[whyterabbyt]

But isn't the very raison d'être of ambient to be passive?

By Eno, ambient is generally passive as part of a larger environment. I dont think that has to be definitive, though; its too restrictive. I dont see a reason for an artificial differentiation between 'artificial-environment-within-environment' and 'environment' (or 'artificial environment')

The sounds and textures are, on one hand, interesting and hopefully pleasing, but also subtle enough to create a mood or place without being the focus. It seems to me it might be difficult to be a passive viewer (listener) without the music also having passive qualities.

Having watched and heard the Atlantic as it pounds the cliffs of North-East Scotland, for example, I find that difficult to agree with....

Absolutely, but not necessarily continual.I know I've posted this elsewhere, but the art on the wall analogy seems fitting because it works on the same principle. You can enjoy the art when paying attention to it, but also enjoy it as an awareness of it being there on the wall without paying attention to it. I think that was Eno's point about ambient music streaming in and out of the listener's awareness of the space in which he or she is.

Again, I work within a different context 'passive'. As I say I dont feel the need to constrain myself by what I see as as a needless constraint founded on something Eno probably never stuck by himself (Ive never seen Eno interviewed where he didnt directly contradict something he'd said in the past).

I'd suggest that reading 'The Ambient Century' by Prendeghast gives a wider context; Eno named something in a particular context, but he didnt define, or invent that something in the first place, and his context, for me, doesnt offer enough to be compellingly absolute.

[Sickle]

So much for technique.

Bring on the pretentious nose-hair pulling!

[vespers75]

So much for technique.

Bring on the pretentious nose-hair pulling!

[vespers75]

time stretch the hell out of it...making a 5 second sound become, say a minute long.

You're doing this within the host (Cubase, Live,...?) or a plug-in? Changing BPM or...? I'm looking for various ways to accomplish this -- thus my curiosity about how you go about it.

There are several ways to do this, but it all depends on what gear you have. Many DAWS support time stretching, though the degree of quality varies from product to product, as well as the quality of the original sample you are intending to stretch. Did you try the paulstretch thing you were making fun of earlier in the thread? After all, it is free and can stretch sounds out for like 4 days or something

[vespers75]

Thanks to all of you who particiapted in this thread, as it makes really interesting reading. I hope the things I revealed about how I tend to compose might help some others out, or perhaps open a door to new ideas of your own. You guys are great.

Cheers, man, you and I share alot of common ground.

Seems the majority of us use samples and time stretching techniques. I messed with that early on a few times but never adapted a working approach I incorporated into my gestalt, instead I work with pitchshifters alot. Maybe I should set aside some time to experiment with it some more again.

It maybe of interest in passing to share that the way I developed my approach was almost 100% due to a driver conflicts that left my Radium 61 essentially useless with my soundcard (1212m at the time). Instead of choosing either copious and frustrating onscreen midi programming/automation editing and/or getting a different external controller, I turned to Reaktor and algorithms to side-step the problem entirely and never looked back. My keyboard sat unused for almost 2 years until I traded it with dburgan last year and it hasn't been replaced. I have Kore and it's harware controller, but haven't begun remotely utilizing it aside from testing for [edit: nevermind].

Cheers to you as well, and I think we do tread some common ground. I have much respect for your purpose and intent when indulging your musical visions.

I do find myself using my keyboard less and less as time goes by, to the point where I could probably throw it in the closet and get by without it perhaps.

[eduardo_b]

Did you try the paulstretch thing you were making fun of earlier in the thread? After all, it is free and can stretch sounds out for like 4 days or something

I love this utility, but I have to save what I'm doing to a file to use it, whereas I was hoping to work within a "live" environment for some stuff -- ideally with a VST effect. Maybe even something in Reaktor. Any suggestions.

/edited for clarity, I think

[eduardo_b]

By Eno, ambient is generally passive as part of a larger environment. I dont think that has to be definitive, though; its too restrictive. I dont see a reason for an artificial differentiation between 'artificial-environment-within-environment' and 'environment' (or 'artificial environment')

I would agree if ambient pieces are relatively short in duration, but 20 or 30 minute (or longer) works simply won't hold anyone's attention continually anyway, so the environment within an environment isn't necessarily an artificial construct -- there's an inherent passivity to it because of length. And given how other worldly ambient music tends to be, there's a built-in artifice comparative to "real world" musical instruments. I'm thinking of long classical music works, which are meant to be actively listened to (not background music per se).

Having watched and heard the Atlantic as it pounds the cliffs of North-East Scotland, for example, I find that difficult to agree with....

Yes, but I would think of that as environmental sound as opposed to ambient music. Now perhaps this is an artificial construct on my part, but I listen to environmental CDs (thunder storms, etc.) and don't think of them as ambient in the way I would music that creates its own environment. Arbitrary, perhaps, but there it is.

As I say I dont feel the need to constrain myself by what I see as as a needless constraint founded on something Eno probably never stuck by himself (Ive never seen Eno interviewed where he didnt directly contradict something he'd said in the past).

I agree with you in principle, but I find something about his "Music For Airports" compelling in it's use of sonic space. For me, his best work. As for being contradictory, I am probably as guilty as he is of this, but no one interviews me.

I'd suggest that reading 'The Ambient Century' by Prendeghast gives a wider context; Eno named something in a particular context, but he didnt define, or invent that something in the first place, and his context, for me, doesnt offer enough to be compellingly absolute.

Is it a good read then? I've seen it mentioned here, but readability seemed to be in the eyes of the beholder.

[Frater Perdurabo]

So much for technique.

Bring on the pretentious nose-hair pulling!

[[ xerocreep ]]

I don't like the way this thread has strayed from talk of capes and leather pants... cuz if you're not dressed like an undead monk, you can't legally make "dark ambient" and I know I can't be the only freak with a cowl and a contact mic reading this right now...