KVR Audio

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:22 pm

Oh... and another thing... do you expect the volume to be adjusted when more saws enter the playground? Like, keep the volume at a constant level? How's that commonly solved?

(Just almost blew my speakers after turning 4 oscillators from single to eleven...)

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:26 pm

Urs wrote:Ok, hehehe, here's an experiment (or, a stunt, rather):

http://www.u-he.com/Z2ElevenWin.zip (VST Win, just Zebra2.dll)
http://www.u-he.com/Z2ElevenAU.zip (Mac AU .component)

The oscillators now have an "eleven" mode which is supposed to be an economic way to add more SuperSawness. However it's a quick mockup. The first 16 notes you play will phase dramatically as the additional saws are not initialized with random phases. If this is on par with the top of the list, I'll refine & add it officially.

Does that come close?

Cheers,

Urs

Damn

why do you keep making it harder and harder for me to resist buying this thing!?!

Sounds great

just needs random phase init and it's purr-fect

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:28 pm

Urs wrote:Oh... and another thing... do you expect the volume to be adjusted when more saws enter the playground? Like, keep the volume at a constant level? How's that commonly solved?
(Just almost blew my speakers after turning 4 oscillators from single to eleven...)

Moin Urs

I'd say attenuate them to a level that sounds "musical" i.e. somewhere inbetween constant-per-osc and constant-total.

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:31 pm

Urs wrote:Oh... and another thing... do you expect the volume to be adjusted when more saws enter the playground? Like, keep the volume at a constant level? How's that commonly solved?

(Just almost blew my speakers after turning 4 oscillators from single to eleven...)

I figured out a neat algo for that once but I don't remember it

... I think it was something like multply by (1 / sqrt(numOscillators))

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm

Chris Walton wrote:I figured out a neat algo for that once but I don't remember it ... I think it was something like multply by (1 / sqrt(numOscillators))

Dunno about that, but at least you have to factor in the "Detune" value - at Detune=0 the signal is MUCH louder than when Detune is minimum/maximum (of course).

BTW: "Eleven" sounds fan-bloody-tastic when you add oscillator effects, especially Turbulence with low osc resolution!

Glad I stayed up so late.

Architeuthis · Post by **Architeuthis** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:54 pm

Urs wrote:Does that come close?

I've been testing for hours now, only got two hours of sleep last night, but my folks are watching a movie so I can't blast supersaws out of my speakers till some time later.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:59 pm

deastman wrote:
aquar wrote:
deastman wrote:Sawtooth Animator
http://www.cyndustries.com/
hey lets hear some examples of what this puppy is capable of.

Edit: Ok I heard the mp3's and truth be told it sounds a bit like Model-E lol
I'm not sure I'd compare it to Model-E, but truth be told it doesn't really do much for me either. My personal favorite would be the Alesis Andromeda. In Unison mode, you can have 16 fully analog sawtooth oscillators detuned as little or as much as you like. Truly an awesome sound.

The JP-8000 is the synth which really started the whole "supersaw" thing. I haven't turned mine on in at least 4 years, so I can't really say how well it stands up to the Andromeda... but I'm not holding my breath.

Silly me... two standard oscillators per voice on the Andromeda (not counting suboscillators), so that gives you up to 32 analog sawtooth waves.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:04 am

Chris Walton wrote:Sounds great just needs random phase init and it's purr-fect

It HAS random phase init - as far as I can tell

. However, Reset and Invert (maybe Phase value also?) are disabled in this experimental version, so it's precisely the opposite that isn't implemented (yet?). You still awake, Urs?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:01 am

Howard wrote:
Chris Walton wrote:Sounds great just needs random phase init and it's purr-fect
It HAS random phase init - as far as I can tell . However, Reset and Invert (maybe Phase value also?) are disabled in this experimental version, so it's precisely the opposite that isn't implemented (yet?). You still awake, Urs?

Uhm... the phase isn't random for the first 16 notes of an instance. After that it's pretty random...

However... it's based on the quad implementation, but to save time the 7 "new" saws don't interpolate too overly smooth and their frequency is derived from the other ones.

And yeah... no reset or sync for now... it's merely an experiment...

One has to turn down the OSC volume... otherwise the filters get driven too much... hmmm...

Later,

Urs

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:09 am

You're awake afterall

Architeuthis · Post by **Architeuthis** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:11 am

OMG! Rapture sounds really dang good. It's just that I can't even figure out how to make the envelopes work like normal so I can't do a clean test. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!

Still to test...
Rapture

http://www.elanhickler.com/d/sawcompare2.mp3

(In order in which they appear)
Helix
Toxic III
ZeroVector
Sylenth1
Synth1
Zebra2 (x11)
Zebra2 (x4)
Gladiator
Vanguard
Sytrus
Nexsyn
Predator
Surge
Supersaw
Xhip
Transcender 2
Superwave P8
Nexus does not generate its own waves

Keep the suggestions coming. NOTE!: While one synth might sound better than the other in my tests, this is purely without effects/processing/creative synth programming, so it's hard to tell which one would be better in different situations.

Architeuthis · Post by **Architeuthis** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:21 am

Damn Rapture is not working! That's why I can't seem to use it. Does anyone know what's up with the infinately sustaining oscillators? That's the problem. Each note I hit sustains forever.

Chris Walton · Post by **Chris Walton** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:21 am

Architeuthis wrote:Nexus does not generate its own waves

It does (it has a complete synthesis engine in the backend), however the details aren't accessible in the non-editor version (and only special people get the editor version ... not even I have it

)

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:56 am

Silkworm
Syncaine TM-200X

...that is if they can do the theoretically proper definition of a supersaw, it can do a saw sound of some type.

I heard that FM7 could do a supersaw, anyone can shed some light on this?

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:32 am

Dear Urs,

After demoing the new 11x oscillator mode, I have determined that 11 angry faces (Figure A:

) such as the example in Figure A will be aimed in your general direction if you do not include this feature into Z2 permanently.

Thank you,

-VitD

ps: I might be able to fend off the angry faces even if you don't include the 11x oscillator so long as you find a way to introduce superosc into Z2.

pps: I think grrl would back me up on this.

ppps: You don't want to disappoint grrl.. think of the pouty face she would have- how would you ever live with yourself if you did such a thing?

What's the best synth for Supersaw? [note: ancient thread]