<nods sadly in agreement>whyterabbyt wrote:oh come on. doesnt everyone love screaming 'oh you f**king TWAT' at themselves for winding up with one erroneosly-chosen strip of SMD components in every f**king parts order?
Nintendetar Guitar & Bass Pedal...PCB & Instructions...
-
- KVRAF
- 8101 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
as a lazy computer programmer type, when I can't get electronics to work, i throw my hands in the air and thank the great god arduino for giving me an easy option.
-
- Banned
- 81 posts since 16 Dec, 2010
I assume you mean the great god ATmel - Arduino is just the programming environment, one which I'm sooo sick of hearing about allll the time!GaryG wrote:as a lazy computer programmer type, when I can't get electronics to work, i throw my hands in the air and thank the great god arduino for giving me an easy option.
<nods sadly in agreement>whyterabbyt wrote:oh come on. doesnt everyone love screaming 'oh you f**king TWAT' at themselves for winding up with one erroneosly-chosen strip of SMD components in every f**king parts order?
rant time - not at you just a general one:
it always annoys me when I see an instructable someone has done where it is something like 3 LEDs flashing one after the other (ie ring oscillator) and they've got their shiny gay little arduino board hanging off a load of wires into a project box, and you can just imagine that the guy has shown it to his mates and they said "wow you're such a genius" and I think, "3 transistors, half an hour and of course not a £30 cost for the arduino board, yeah that guy is a fuckin genius alright"
it's whats known in the UK as a £10 solution to a £3 problem + my contempt for just about everyone plays a big part too.
it's why I started my electronics blog - easy layouts to get people into real electronics and not the shitduino/breadboard approach http://paulinthelab.blogspot.co.uk/
I just hate that stupid blue board because it is EVERYWHERE!!
having thought about it, I actually did a veroboard layout that enabled you to transfer the ATmel chip from the shitduino board for a more permanent ATmel based device http://paulinthelab.blogspot.co.uk/2012 ... board.html
-
- KVRist
- 114 posts since 23 Jan, 2012
Well I just talk with little knowledge here, but what bothers me is that as you say Arduino is everywhere and with the famous "shields" for every single robotics/midi/whatever project I've come across with.insonicbloom wrote: it always annoys me when I see an instructable someone has done where it is something like 3 LEDs flashing one after the other (ie ring oscillator) and they've got their shiny gay little arduino board hanging off a load of wires into a project box, and you can just imagine that the guy has shown it to his mates and they said "wow you're such a genius" and I think, "3 transistors, half an hour and of course not a £30 cost for the arduino board, yeah that guy is a fuckin genius alright"
it's whats known in the UK as a £10 solution to a £3 problem + my contempt for just about everyone plays a big part too.
Makes me wonder if I really need the Arduino for the project or I could just get the darn ATMega with some few components and use the shield, or even better just the breakout board and save some $$$.
I was thinking of a project that would run a SD card, a touchscreen, a DAC and a LCD, and wow, it's pushing the $150 USD for the shields and the Arduino. Could I make this by myself (obviously by myself means nothing more than copy and pasting ideas/layouts from other people, mixing them up, and coding a lot) for say 50 bucks? Probably not?
But it certainly bothers me in the $$$ realm.
But, the ignorant shall pay more I guess.
What better religion than music itself?
-
- Banned
- 81 posts since 16 Dec, 2010
well as I posted, a link to my veroboard version of the arduino eval board (minus USB of course, I really couldn't be arsed adding that in when I'd have to f**k about with adding a daughter board for the SMD USB interface)
all the shields are, are just handy boards with jelly bean components on them which is all well and good for the sake of convenience but it takes out another step of learning for people who are wanting to get into electronics.
when I was young I had these 300 in one springboard project kits and you wired it up as per the instructions without really knowing what was going on and then once it started flashing the LED or whatever, you could then look at the diagram and the explanation that came with it and because you had wired it up it was an extra piece that went together in your head - that way you learned the building blocks
but with arduino, the focus is on the code alone especially with the shields and you just learn to code - or in my case I learned to cut and paste code from various places till it did what I wanted it to do.
arduino is masturbation as far as I'm concerned - sure you get a payoff at the end but it's nowhere near as good as the real thing.
all the shields are, are just handy boards with jelly bean components on them which is all well and good for the sake of convenience but it takes out another step of learning for people who are wanting to get into electronics.
when I was young I had these 300 in one springboard project kits and you wired it up as per the instructions without really knowing what was going on and then once it started flashing the LED or whatever, you could then look at the diagram and the explanation that came with it and because you had wired it up it was an extra piece that went together in your head - that way you learned the building blocks
but with arduino, the focus is on the code alone especially with the shields and you just learn to code - or in my case I learned to cut and paste code from various places till it did what I wanted it to do.
arduino is masturbation as far as I'm concerned - sure you get a payoff at the end but it's nowhere near as good as the real thing.
-
Dean Aka Nekro Dean Aka Nekro https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=162100 - KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 6178 posts since 4 Oct, 2007 from Escaped At Last
Don't pull any punches there Paul, Anyway I got a message from someone wanting to get a nintendetar via KVR so I'll give you there user name dude so you can sort it/answer any questions. Check your hotmail inbox ardoomo
Its all good
Its all good
-
- Beware the Quoth
- 35433 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Its a tool, nothing more.insonicbloom wrote:arduino is masturbation as far as I'm concerned - sure you get a payoff at the end but it's nowhere near as good as the real thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument
Ive not got so much time to start learning and implementing 'proper' electronics to solve problems from scratch, though. OTOH, I do know how to program, and I was able to get a motion sensor up and running and controlling playback from 6 channels of audio via MAX/MSP in a day, sans previous Arduino experience. The principals are not so different from when I was using PDP11's to control stepper motors and X-ray sensors via CAMAC crates. Its a problem space Im comfortable in, unlike electronics. Milages vary.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
-
- KVRAF
- 8476 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland
-
- KVRAF
- 8476 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland
I was planning on getting an Arduino board just for the convenience of not having to f**k about with SMD USB interfaces... plus veroboards suck and once you factor in the cost of ordering a one-off PCB those boards aren't that expensive anymore.insonicbloom wrote:well as I posted, a link to my veroboard version of the arduino eval board (minus USB of course, I really couldn't be arsed adding that in when I'd have to f**k about with adding a daughter board for the SMD USB interface)
-
- Banned
- 81 posts since 16 Dec, 2010
whyterabbyt wrote:Its a tool, nothing more.insonicbloom wrote:arduino is masturbation as far as I'm concerned - sure you get a payoff at the end but it's nowhere near as good as the real thing.
a dick or the arduino?
-
- Beware the Quoth
- 35433 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
yup.insonicbloom wrote:a dick or the arduino?whyterabbyt wrote:Its a tool, nothing more.insonicbloom wrote:arduino is masturbation as far as I'm concerned - sure you get a payoff at the end but it's nowhere near as good as the real thing.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
-
- Banned
- 81 posts since 16 Dec, 2010
veroboards suck? they are a prototyping board and I'm not sure in what way they suck - the arduino is an evaluation/programming environment and if you want to use it in more than one project the cost isn't a one off, nor are all the shields. don't criticize my vero layout stuff - I provide that content so that people can do electronics without spending ages laying it out for themselves and worrying about whether the layout is good or not.mystran wrote:I was planning on getting an Arduino board just for the convenience of not having to f**k about with SMD USB interfaces... plus veroboards suck and once you factor in the cost of ordering a one-off PCB those boards aren't that expensive anymore.insonicbloom wrote:well as I posted, a link to my veroboard version of the arduino eval board (minus USB of course, I really couldn't be arsed adding that in when I'd have to f**k about with adding a daughter board for the SMD USB interface)
now I know I was probably the one who brought arduino up but kindly take the discussion elsewhere because I have lost the will to give a shit.
-
- KVRAF
- 8101 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
I quite agree actually. I find arduinos quick and easy for my amateur dabbling but I'd never build one into a permanent project, always transaplant the chip into something like your vero layout. I treat them very much as a development tool/cheap-ish programmer. I have little interest in being a serious assembly level PIC programmer so the environment suits me fine.insonicbloom wrote:
rant time - not at you just a general one:
it always annoys me when I see an instructable someone has done where it is something like 3 LEDs flashing one after the other (ie ring oscillator) and they've got their shiny gay little arduino board hanging off a load of wires into a project box, and you can just imagine that the guy has shown it to his mates and they said "wow you're such a genius" and I think, "3 transistors, half an hour and of course not a £30 cost for the arduino board, yeah that guy is a fuckin genius alright"
*But*, for suitably complex projects; making an APC out of an arduino when a single 555 would do? Crazy. Worst example was an instructable where an arduino was being used to send out a timing pulse. Again, something a single 555 could do.
-
- KVRAF
- 8476 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland
Ok, maybe not suck, but I don't like them. IMHO between PCBs and solderless breadboards you just got the worst of both. But I admit that's my personal subjective opinion on the matter and I'm very lazy to build anything anyway, so it's not worth much.insonicbloom wrote:veroboards suck? they are a prototyping board and I'm not sure in what way they suckmystran wrote:I was planning on getting an Arduino board just for the convenience of not having to f**k about with SMD USB interfaces... plus veroboards suck and once you factor in the cost of ordering a one-off PCB those boards aren't that expensive anymore.insonicbloom wrote:well as I posted, a link to my veroboard version of the arduino eval board (minus USB of course, I really couldn't be arsed adding that in when I'd have to f**k about with adding a daughter board for the SMD USB interface)
Yeah, but you can use the board and ignore the programming environment. For production you can still design the micro into the board, and I think that's the value of boards like Arduino: you can just pick an off-the-shelf board, do some breadboarding and if it works, design it properly afterwards.- the arduino is an evaluation/programming environment
I'm no criticizing your vero layout stuff. I just pointed out that in the specific case of hooking up an Atmega for prototyping purposes, you could just as well use an Arduino, unless you specifically enjoy soldering.don't criticize my vero layout stuff - I provide that content so that people can do electronics without spending ages laying it out for themselves and worrying about whether the layout is good or not.
-
- Banned
- 81 posts since 16 Dec, 2010
the arduino veroboard was to allow people to make arduino/Atmel projects more permanent rather than having to buy a new board each time, they could just vero it
-
- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
when I was very young my father bought a kit from Raytheon that was building blocks each with a component in it, you built projects on a cookie sheet and the blocks connected by magnets/metal contacts. It was geared toward kids but you could make a lot of things, it even had a photo cell and you could make a crude theremin that worked from the amount of light. It was my favorite toy everinsonicbloom wrote:well as I posted, a link to my veroboard version of the arduino eval board (minus USB of course, I really couldn't be arsed adding that in when I'd have to f**k about with adding a daughter board for the SMD USB interface)
all the shields are, are just handy boards with jelly bean components on them which is all well and good for the sake of convenience but it takes out another step of learning for people who are wanting to get into electronics.
when I was young I had these 300 in one springboard project kits and you wired it up as per the instructions without really knowing what was going on and then once it started flashing the LED or whatever, you could then look at the diagram and the explanation that came with it and because you had wired it up it was an extra piece that went together in your head - that way you learned the building blocks
but with arduino, the focus is on the code alone especially with the shields and you just learn to code - or in my case I learned to cut and paste code from various places till it did what I wanted it to do.
arduino is masturbation as far as I'm concerned - sure you get a payoff at the end but it's nowhere near as good as the real thing.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.