One-Synth-Challenge 52: Podolski - Voting and Results

[V'ger]

Ah so vote for as many as you like, (minimum 5) using the 1-5 point scale?

[z.prime]

Ah so vote for as many as you like, (minimum 5) using the 1-5 point scale?

Right, exactly. So you could give 2 tracks 5 points if you felt like it. There definitely have been times I would have done so in past OSC's.

[idfpower]

But must say I'm surprised that in the biggest field ever some of you now want to vote for every song? I still remember when we cut down votes to 5 how the feeling was of relief and more people seemed to vote.

IMO all participants deserve at least one point for joining the competition It's not easy to work under the restrictions of OSC and yet ppl manage to come up with very cool songs every sigle time.

[V'ger]

Yes it is a side effect of the few points system that some might not get any. Certainly would be changed if every song had to be scored, but then it might end up with the same scenario but just all with the same low score..

Ah so vote for as many as you like, (minimum 5) using the 1-5 point scale?

Right, exactly. So you could give 2 tracks 5 points if you felt like it. There definitely have been times I would have done so in past OSC's.

Yes I see. Not bad unless too small fields where it might lead to a lot of similar scores, but then it might still be enough differentiation.

[z.prime]

Yes I see. Not bad unless too small fields where it might lead to a lot of similar scores, but then it might still be enough differentiation.

Yeah, I think it would work itself out. For this month as an example, I'd probably end up giving points to about 10 tracks (the short list) at varying levels. I would be way too lazy to click the 1 point thing 65 times or so

[Kondarivan]

@Kondarivan: Yes one can make dropdown select boxes but how to tie that in with a scoring spreadsheet(s) to automatically get scoreboards like we use now?
https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/os ... scoreboard

Alright, here we go.

I suppose you want to get a result like that because it's easy to write a =SUM for the columns and thus retrieve the final score, am I correct?
In the case of dropdown select boxes, the process is just a tiny bit harder. After setting up the first list in Google Drive (I presume you'll need to manually copy-paste all the track titles), naming it, duplicating it four times, and renaming each list, your form will start populating with votes. In the end, the linked spreadsheet of results is going to look something like this:


At this point, it looks really hard to gather data together, because there are no numerical values for points. However, all that needs to be done is:
- Grab a list of the unique entries
- Search for those entries inside the lists, and count how many times they appear.
- Calculate the final score based on previous results.
This could be done as follows:

In some cell inside the spreadsheet (make sure it has a big space below, because we're going to make a list of entries here - for instance, I chose A9 in the example), write the following formula:

Code: Select all

=UNIQUE(TRANSPOSE(SPLIT(ARRAYFORMULA(CONCATENATE(C2:C7&CHAR(13);D2:D7&CHAR(13);E2:E7&CHAR(13);F2:F7&CHAR(13);G2:G7&CHAR(13)));CHAR(13))))

What it does is basically concatenating all columns, and finding unique members (too bad the UNIQUE function can't find unique values in 2D arrays; it just seeks unique rows, which is quite frustrating if you're after something else, but whatever works...)

*NOTE* Since I found no way to automatically retrieve the amount of entries, you will unfortunately have to manually replace the lower boundary of the arrays. For example, here we had 6 votes cast, therefore all the arrays start from row 2 and end at row 7 (as you can see in all the C2:C7, D2:D7, E2:E7, etc.). For a different number of votes, just change everywhere it says "7" with the amount of votes plus one. You'll also see the graphical representation, so that should be easy enough.

So, after some short amount of "cloud computing", the results should look similar to this:


Following that, comes the actual computation of scores, which could be done as follows: In B9 (or wherever you want to place your score table), add this:

Code: Select all

=COUNTIF($C$2:$C$7;A9)*5+COUNTIF($D$2:$D$7;A9)*4+COUNTIF($E$2:$E$7;A9)*3+COUNTIF($F$2:$F$7;A9)*2+COUNTIF($G$2:$G$7;A9)*1

Again, 7 has to be replaced with the amount of votes +1 (even if, in fact, there could just be a box to be manually filled with that number of votes, and these functions could grab their stuff from there - it's all up to preferences).

Since I added $ before column and row indices (making them unchangeable in case of auto-complete), it should be now possible to auto-complete the rest of the table:


And that should be all; as you can see, the scores are ready and correctly calculated. Of course, after this, you can order the results however you see fit.

Hope this helps.
Kon

[V'ger]

Very clever stuff

I'm amazed this was doable but don't doubt it now. I would of course have to get my head around it first..

Only minus I can see is that I've just made a system (using Autohotkey), that automatically creates the form and sheet from the song files (which all in all saves a big task), but I guess that could still be altered to suit the dropdown system.

But as you can see from the posts above, there have been calls to alter the voting system to a variable one, and if that will be decided upon (after a rules poll) then maybe the old 1-5 scale entry form is the best after all?

[Davias]

Just thinking out loud here, but when people feel that picking only 5 tracks is to hard (I can imagine), why don't we change the way we vote completely?

I would love to be able to give 1 to 5 points (stars) to every track I listen to.. listen to it.. and decide for yourself what kind of rating you want to give that track. I could end up with 3 tracks I believe are amazing and all deserve 5 points.. so I give them all 5 points.

Maybe there are 6 tracks that I think are good, but nothing special, I could give them 3 out of 5 points.

So, give ALL tracks a rating between 1 and 5 points/stars and in the end, it's very easy to see who received the most points. (and the second most, third most, etc..)

Many time in previous OSC's I wanted to give points to more than 5 tracks, but I couldn't. That problem would be gone in this scenario.

In my opinion, this would be the most fair way of voting.

Great idea !

I was thinking something similar but even more complex, like a score on ten for many aspects of the song : originality, melody, presets programming quality, mix quality and so on, for example : originality 8/10, melodies 6/10, etc... then sum up for one song. Because while I was hearing the tracks I was thinking "waaaw I like the ambiance, the mood so much" or "waw what a punchy mix/master" or "how the hell did they manage to put that sound out of podolski ?" or "this is music, you hear someone who knows notes, harmony, etc..." or "so fun, so original..." and so on So at the end I was lost not knowing who to vote for ^^

But I think your idea is more simple and more effective than mine, I like it !

For this session I guess I will vote for 5 winners in each of my categories best master, best melodies, best presets, most original, better automation/daw mastery something like that

[bftucker]

ummmm...this is getting complicated!

I give five points to the one I like best. Four points to the other one I also like best. And divide the 3, 2, and 1 points among the other three I almost like best but for some reason not quite as much. In retrospect, I try to justify my choices. I guess I am not a very sophisticated critic.

[sovarozum]

ummmm...this is getting complicated!

I give five points to the one I like best. Four points to the other one I also like best. And divide the 3, 2, and 1 points among the other three I almost like best but for some reason not quite as much. In retrospect, I try to justify my choices. I guess I am not a very sophisticated critic.

I don't think the type of critics we are is the concern, i think that many of us are wanting to give many different tracks points, but have to sacrifice our options. In my case (which sucked this contest :/ ), I had to think of it as:

If I can't give A & B & C 5 points,
Then I will give them to C
Because I feel similarly about all three songs, but C had this one thing.

Then I would choose a different set of songs to give 4 points too as opposed to A or B, because I feel as if it would dishonor the producer.

[Kondarivan]

But as you can see from the posts above, there have been calls to alter the voting system to a variable one, and if that will be decided upon (after a rules poll) then maybe the old 1-5 scale entry form is the best after all?

Sure. I just wanted to show a possibility from start to end.

I was thinking something similar but even more complex, like a score on ten for many aspects of the song : originality, melody, presets programming quality, mix quality and so on, for example : originality 8/10, melodies 6/10, etc... then sum up for one song. Because while I was hearing the tracks I was thinking "waaaw I like the ambiance, the mood so much" or "waw what a punchy mix/master" or "how the hell did they manage to put that sound out of podolski ?" or "this is music, you hear someone who knows notes, harmony, etc..." or "so fun, so original..." and so on Very Happy So at the end I was lost not knowing who to vote for ^^

Sure, that's one system. It can help you organizing your thoughts, but it might actually create a grid for songs. Choosing the quality of something based on patterns is just not the best way of judging things.
I for one don't like cutting a musical piece and "analyzing" parts of it; I think of any track as a whole, indivisible unity. For example, there are genres where melody isn't a priority, and where sound design or perhaps rhythm is what makes the track come alive. Think DnB or Ambient. They're radically different genres, and would probably get completely other results than a metal track or a symphonic one, based on predefined standards. I wouldn't give a lower rating to a really great track because it didn't have "good programming" or "good melody". You know, if Mozart was alive, he'd probably have bad mixes

Another thought is that in my opinion, range of ratings should be kept pretty low; it's difficult to come up with a number even if it's a choice between 0 and 1. Liking something is quite subjective, and prone to fluctuations. It usually happens in a manner which is relative rather than absolute. I know I like that track, but if I had to rate it, I'd have to compare it with other tracks. You can never (I mean never) know what constitutes a 87/100, because there's no science of good music. In order to get at least coherent results, one should compare tracks two by two. And even so, sometimes you end up realizing that A > B > C > A Paradox.

[idfpower]

While I was pondering about this last night, this hit me: wouldn't a system that allows you to give the same number of points to multiple entries increase the possibility of a tie between several songs? And if so, wouldn't that create an issue with the prizes? I mean do the developers agree to give away let's say 5 or 10 product licenses a month instead of one? I think this should be discussed before getting ahead of us 'cause it won't be fair to twist their arm, you know Just my 2 cents

[Kondarivan]

Didn't think of that one. But if I recall correctly, ties are handled so that the one with more 5 point votes gets the first prize, and so on. Statistically, it should be rather rare to have the same amount of 5 point votes cast for two or more different entries. Although, that would be more likely to happen if a vote has to be applied to every track, as that would be more of a rating system than an actual voting one; thus one could give away maximum percentage without too much reflecting and weighting.
Somehow, the ability to give more than one max rating doesn't make a max rating feel like a "special choice" or some sort of gift to the creator; on the other side, it's a smaller rating that feels the opposite...

[Harthstein]

Just thinking out loud here, but when people feel that picking only 5 tracks is to hard (I can imagine), why don't we change the way we vote completely?

I would love to be able to give 1 to 5 points (stars) to every track I listen to.. listen to it.. and decide for yourself what kind of rating you want to give that track. I could end up with 3 tracks I believe are amazing and all deserve 5 points.. so I give them all 5 points.

Maybe there are 6 tracks that I think are good, but nothing special, I could give them 3 out of 5 points.

So, give ALL tracks a rating between 1 and 5 points/stars and in the end, it's very easy to see who received the most points. (and the second most, third most, etc..)

Many time in previous OSC's I wanted to give points to more than 5 tracks, but I couldn't. That problem would be gone in this scenario.

In my opinion, this would be the most fair way of voting.

In my opinion, too. Superb!!

[idfpower]

Didn't think of that one. But if I recall correctly, ties are handled so that the one with more 5 point votes gets the first prize, and so on.

Ah, didn't know that ^^ Then I guess it could work