"Logic Pro X will eventually be sandboxed"

[VitaminD]

Steinberg has caught this disease to a certain degree, having just axed VST2.4 support, and announced that Steinberg products will be VST3 only in the not-too-distant future.

Did they actually say that? That their products will actually stop loading VST 2.x plugs in the not too distant future?

I really don't recall them saying that. I do recall them saying they'll no longer support and distribute the VST 2 SDK, not that all their products will stop using VST 2.x plugs.

Can you link to that comment?

I don't think there is one.. but it seems fairly obvious it is coming sooner or later.. The only way to get more people to use VST3 is to forcefully stop them from using VST2. First step is to no longer support/distribute VST2 SDK and hope to get more newcomers to VST3. And, even if they don't, they can say 'well we stopped supporting the VST2 SDK X months/years ago - you can't even get it from us anymore.' when they consider VST2 an axed, legacy product. I suspect a Cubase 9 or 10 won't even load VST2 plugins..

I don't think it is happening anytime soon.. they will let it simmer for quite some time I suspect.

[Compyfox]

At how things are currently pan out, I wouldn't bet on that!

[Crandall1]

Did they actually say that? That their products will actually stop loading VST 2.x plugs in the not too distant future?

I really don't recall them saying that. I do recall them saying they'll no longer support and distribute the VST 2 SDK, not that all their products will stop using VST 2.x plugs.

This is a direct copy-and-past quote of a reply Arne made to something bitchy Admiral Quality asked on the VST dev mailing list, on Sept. 3, 2013:

"I did not say that the VST 3 SDK comes with a full VST 2 SDK. I only said that the necessary parts are there to build a VST 2 plug-in. And the meaning of the marketing slang is this: VST 2 is dead, hurry up and use VST 3. It provides you to also build VST 2 and AU plug-ins, so backward compatibility is given. And Steinberg hosts will someday stop loading VST 2 plug-ins."

You're welcome to read that however you want. As a commercial developer, I'm forced to take it at face value. But at face value, it is pretty black-and-white. (Aside from the fact that Arne tends to froth a bit when replying to Admiral Quality, but as we all know, the Admiral isn't known for his people skills.)

[LawrenceF]

The only way to get more people to use VST3 is to forcefully stop them from using VST2.

But they can't. Even if Cubendo completely dropped VST 2 support in their workstations and editors, which I tend to doubt will happen, every other DAW on the planet will still support it. All that would do is piss off Cubendo users, nothing else.

The only way forward for VST 3 is a slow process, making it attractive enough that more and more people keep asking for it. If Sonar and Samp and all the other VST 2 hosts don't want to become VST3 hosts, Steiny can't force them to.

And I seriously doubt if any of those companies actually need support from Steiny for the VST2 SDK.

[LawrenceF]

You're welcome to read that however you want.

Seems clear enough to me in his comment that you quoted, "someday". Thanks. I'm not sure that day is even remotely close, or 10+ more years away, but we'll all see what happens down the road I guess.

I don't think they can do that (without really pissing their users off) until VST 3 is adopted much more widely... sounds more like they're just trying to nudge more developers that way with scare tactics.

VST 2 won't be really "dead" until everyone stops using it... and the list of VST 2 hosts is pretty long... so maybe those fears are a wee bit premature.

We'll see. But we'll probably have to wait 5-7+ more years to know for sure.

Now if - and I have no personal clue - there's actually some way Steiny can force all developers to just stop using the VST 2 SDK, sure, they can speed that process up. If not, they can only maybe really stop new developers from using it... not the legions already using it.

Can they do that? Can they force Cakewalk to stop making a VST2 only host?

[Compyfox]

"... And Steinberg hosts will someday stop loading VST 2 plug-ins."

If it happens with C8, don't tell me that I didn't warn you. But... as of this moment, VST3 is buggy as hell. But on the other hand - if they drop VST2 in C8 or C9 latest, then they will suppress a lot(!) of third party developers.


I ask again:
Which company/host is pulling the most crap currently?
Avid, Apple or Steinberg?

[SonyPCH]

If you are interested in the details, google

Technical Note TN2247

If an app wants to talk to a non sandboxed plugin, it can. The user will be asked if it is ok the first time, and then permission will be granted.

The sky is not falling. Of course it could change.

Peter

[SWAN808]

If Logic X then gets sandboxed and you can only buy plugins in the app store - thats effectively the end of its use as a 'pro' audio software app I would think?

Two words:
z3ta+ and STEAM

what do those words mean lol...

[Compyfox]

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... z3ta+steam

Read up on it.

[aMUSEd]

App Store was sorta kinda a good idea but

- No upgrade pricing possible

It is possible to have sales though, so many upgraded versions have a launch sale giving older users an opportunity to benefit as well as attracting new ones. It is also possible for devs to give loyal users store vouchers.

[kenporter]

The big difference being that Rack Extensions are increasing the availability of different "plugins" while a sandboxed Logic would ostensibly decrease the availability of different plugins. Reason and Logic would arrive at the same point but with opposite trajectories if that makes sense. Developers might be more willing to let Propellerhead have their cut because Reason users are a completely new user-base that didn't previously exist before Rack Extensions. If Apple wants devs to fork over 30% just to be able to sell to the already established Logic user-base, devs are going to have to make one of these choices: 1. Swallow a 30% loss in AU sales 2. Raise prices on all standards (VST, AAX) to compensate 3. Raise prices only on AU versions to compensate 4. Drop AU entirely

1 is not going to happen. 2 is unlikely (nobody is going to want to pay extra to subsidize Logic users) 3 is unlikely (only the die-hards would stick with Logic if compatible plugins cost a third more just for the privilege of using them in Logic) . Which leaves 4 as the only viable option for many developers.

I agree that, from a consumer standpoint, being able to go to one single place to get all purchases and updates for your plugins would be nice. Maybe it would decrease piracy for "Logic approved" plugins, but people that are inclined to use pirated software will just move on to another non-sandboxed DAW. So in the end, I don't think the "reduced piracy" argument would be too persuasive to get devs on board.

If the ROI is there I am sure developers would keep making AU plugins regardless if there was a cut to be paid to Apple. Plus, I am rally hoping this would help reduce piracy as well. Wishful thinking of course.

Ken

[softska]

App Store was sorta kinda a good idea but

- No upgrade pricing possible

It is possible to have sales though, so many upgraded versions have a launch sale giving older users an opportunity to benefit as well as attracting new ones. It is also possible for devs to give loyal users store vouchers.

How? Where? No voucher I ever saw with any app in my account. Some just claim they can't do it thus expect me to pay full, others just have crossgrade me back to non app store ver (basically what OmniGroup trying to automate until they get blocked by, guess who? Apple)

[EvilDragon]

Plus, I am rally hoping this would help reduce piracy as well. Wishful thinking of course.

Very much wishful. Even iOS apps are being cracked now.

[murnau]

this whole license model with no resale etc. only support piracy as we see.

[Compyfox]

Agreed - take away the users capability to do with the licenses whatever they feel like "in their studio", and you'll get a huge backlash.

But apparently, nobody gives a damn.