Which companies have the most reliable and fair policies?

[IncarnateX]

But I do know know people who have used forum pseudonyms of a different gender from their own. Funny that.

Funny indeed.

In any case "Maria" is suitable for the little girl with first world problems that is performed so excellently here.

[chk071]

Oh the synth price debate.

I guess (hope) there's no arguing that ACE is great value for money. It's also our synth with the coolest ad, which we run more often in magazines than any other. Yet, ACE is our least popular synth. Hive has outsold (!) ACE in 6 months.

Here's what I think: That's because the pricing debate is BS. People who argue about synth prices don't want cheap plug-ins. They want expensive plug-ins for cheap. The success and "want factor" of a plug-in is directly related to its price tag.

I guess it's also because the concept is simply more appealing, from what i gathered here over the years, and elsewhere,, simple VA's are much more attractive than (semi-)modulars. Modulars always appeared to me as rather being the geek's synth choice rather than being the mass product. I agree though that most people will want the expensive plugins though, firstly for the "Apple factor", secondly, most expensive stuff isn't expensive for nothing, but also reflects popularity, demand, or quality, though not always. It's a difficult case, i guess that everyone's perception is different, i feel like anything over 100 € is too expensive, another person will find everything over 150 € too expensive, and some people don't have a problem shelling out 200 €. I can only guess how many copies are being sold, and if the revenues are enough to keep the business alive and healthy, i just can speak from my personal (hobbyist) customer position. The most expensive synth i ever bought was Electra2 as an update for version 1 for 120 € altogether, Spire i got for 69 with the Beat subscription, Largo for 80 if i remember right, used. Those are prices I would pay for those synths, anything above that seems a bit excessive to me, and, to be totally honest, one also has to wonder if one reason for the amount of cracked copies of popular synths like Sylenth1, is not the price tag itself.

[Elektronisch]

I won't bother to elaborate too much, but some companies I refuse to do business with are listed below. These 'usual suspects' have extensive and shakey reputations and don't need an awful lot said about them in the first place: their issues tend to be known. The reasons vary from very poor customer service, arrogant attitudes, terrible licensing requirements or icky lic. software. All of this, regardless of whether their products are any good. There are almost always great alternatives to anything these sell, and I haven't regretted one minute for avoiding this bunch:

Cakewalk - a company that seems to love leaving its bugs unfixed while adding at least one more bug to each and every update. Meanwhile, now owned by Gibson Guitar, a company that should be king of this list if it sold its own software, Gibson possibly the ultimate worst and most overpriced in products of any company in the realm of music.

IK Multimedia

Native Instruments

UAD

Steinberg - better under Yamaha's ownership but still a bunch of arrogant snots (as is their forum!)

Scuffham Amps - forum stiffling (and dead), licensing writes to boot sector-matrix-potentially dangerous (and foolish)

U-he - products overpriced, never put on sale as opposed to most reasonable companies, service can be slow, firm seems scatterbrained in general

There are 2 or 3 more, but I just wanted to cover what I call 'the big 7'.
Yup, it's some popular products and big names, but if you think you can't live without their goods you are fooling yourself. Believe me, you can produce plenty of hits and make a fortune without them or the troubles they bring.

Tho i agree about cakewalk not fixing bugs but you sound so negative without real reason. What seems mostly a problem for you that products are overpriced. Well its not developers problem you are poor and cant buy. Thats not the reason to judge.

P.s. uhe plugins arent overpriced they are average priced + in a long run you get new features. If you think thats overpriced then sir i have to tell you that you born in wrong time, because then majority of developers are selling overpriced plugins.

You obviously either did not read my post or you lack any ability to discern what was written. I only mentioned price once of all 7 (and the average synth price is something like $98, with the price of many falling off even lower, plugin effects generally hitting all-time low prices in the last year or more, so your remark is also wrong). Further, I think your literacy skills could be questioned, since you seem unable to read my name. Know any men named "Marla", sir?

But this is just basic silliness. What has become clear from the many responses is that there is a real and functioning attempt at censorship going on here. It's inexcusable and this place would fare much better in some place like China or North Korea. This behaviour is either childish or foolish, probably both. Oh, and it's cowardly to fear posting a criticism also. So, so strange and opposite of the modern-day concept of freedom and the like.

Ok mis? madam? Marla My literacy skills are questionable because English is not my native language. About prices its debatable as not that many high quality plugin prices are that low, i mean top ones. Your mentioned in top 7...eh basicly you mentioned top vendors who make and sell plugins that are always in top 10 tier.

[jancivil]

But this is just basic silliness. What has become clear from the many responses is that there is a real and functioning attempt at censorship going on here. It's inexcusable and this place would fare much better in some place like China or North Korea. This behaviour is either childish or foolish, probably both. Oh, and it's cowardly to fear posting a criticism also. So, so strange and opposite of the modern-day concept of freedom and the like.

This is preposterous and really just unhinged. All that happened is people found your post to be kind of just full of shit.

[Jace-BeOS]

Further, I think your literacy skills could be questioned, since you seem unable to read my name. Know any men named "Marla", sir?

You're going to find this approach to be frought with conflict.

1. This is a global website. English is not a universal language. There are plenty of people here for whom English is a second or third language. A little respect and tolerance for non-native speaking is pretty much a requirement and will take you further.

2. I've seen a lot of names used in gender uncommon cases, but that's my context of being a North American. Outside the USA, naming conventions are different. My own name I've never seen on a male (though it is indeed used for males), and I've seen a male with the name Christy, which is unheard of in my culture. This is another example of English culture not being universal and where giving people the benefit of the doubt is helpful for civil social intercourse. It's normal to assume a member of this forum is male, even if it is incorrect to do so. The statistics make the assumption more safe than not.

That said, music (and especially electronics/tech) communities need to have more women in them, so I hope you continue to stay around here. Please understand when your gender comes as a surprise to others in this forum. Make it clear to correct them, but please leave off the criticism. Plenty of people here can take correction just fine and will welcome you as whatever gender or sexuality you identify as.

But this is just basic silliness. What has become clear from the many responses is that there is a real and functioning attempt at censorship going on here. It's inexcusable and this place would fare much better in some place like China or North Korea. This behaviour is either childish or foolish, probably both. Oh, and it's cowardly to fear posting a criticism also. So, so strange and opposite of the modern-day concept of freedom and the like.

I think you're seriously off base. But first, lets talk about censorship and freedom of speech:

1. Freedom of speech means only that you cannot be jailed by the government for your speech. It doesn't mean that you're entitled to be heard, nor that you're entitled to be free from criticism for said speech.

2. This forum is a private environment. It is owned by independent private entities. It need not conform to any free speech ideals as part of its rules of engagement. Censorship, as you're possibly meaning it, is not relevant in this environment. The same can be said about all forums unless they're owned by the government (and there'd still be a set of rules for civil engagement). If you disagree with the rules of engagement here, your only rightful recourse is to express an opinion and then leave if it is not taken to heart.

Now that you've expressed your opinion, here's my critique: comparing the KVR forum to North Korea or China is entirely out of proportion and comes off as poor taste and rather ignorant of the reality (the reality of KVR and North Korea, and possibly overstating the Chinese oppression). If you'd been here for years and had more exposure to this forum, you might agree with those of us who feel you're out of line. Give it time and back off from your critical posture in the mean time. Try again.

[EDIT: your profile says you've been a member since August 2013, so I'm kind of confused as to why you have this impression of KVR. Many members think this place is far too critical, which is the opposite of your claim of oppressive censorship. My opinion is that it's just about balanced but with a trend toward protecting developers. Seriously, though, if you've been here for two years, I'd expect you might be better in tune with forum etiquette regarding respecting non-English culture and assumptions. ]

The people here are quite open and friendly, given that you don't criticize their language skills unkindly (don't do it as an attack on character to win an argument; do it gently as a helpful offering of assistance), and so long as you don't jump straight into "this place is oppressive" commentary, comparing a private forum to a dictatorial and inhumane despotic nation. Yes, there's some defensiveness of developers here, as I myself mentioned. No, this isn't an environment that flatly rejects critical commentary; there's LOTS of that here.

[MarlaPodolski]

Further, I think your literacy skills could be questioned, since you seem unable to read my name. Know any men named "Marla", sir?

You're going to find this approach to be frought with conflict.

1. This is a global website. English is not a universal language. There are plenty of people here for whom English is a second or third language. A little respect and tolerance for non-native speaking is pretty much a requirement and will take you further.

2. I've seen a lot of names used in gender uncommon cases, but that's my context of being a North American. Outside the USA, naming conventions are different. My own name I've never seen on a male (though it is indeed used for males), and I've seen a male with the name Christy, which is unheard of in my culture. This is another example of English culture not being universal and where giving people the benefit of the doubt is helpful for civil social intercourse. It's normal to assume a member of this forum is male, even if it is incorrect to do so. The statistics make the assumption more safe than not.

That said, music (and especially electronics/tech) communities need to have more women in them, so I hope you continue to stay around here. Please understand when your gender comes as a surprise to others in this forum. Make it clear to correct them, but please leave off the criticism. Plenty of people here can take correction just fine and will welcome you as whatever gender or sexuality you identify as.

But this is just basic silliness. What has become clear from the many responses is that there is a real and functioning attempt at censorship going on here. It's inexcusable and this place would fare much better in some place like China or North Korea. This behaviour is either childish or foolish, probably both. Oh, and it's cowardly to fear posting a criticism also. So, so strange and opposite of the modern-day concept of freedom and the like.

I think you're seriously off base. But first, lets talk about censorship and freedom of speech:

1. Freedom of speech means only that you cannot be jailed by the government for your speech. It doesn't mean that you're entitled to be heard, nor that you're entitled to be free from criticism for said speech.

2. This forum is a private environment. It is owned by independent private entities. It need not conform to any free speech ideals as part of its rules of engagement. Censorship, as you're possibly meaning it, is not relevant in this environment. The same can be said about all forums unless they're owned by the government (and there'd still be a set of rules for civil engagement). If you disagree with the rules of engagement here, your only rightful recourse is to express an opinion and then leave if it is not taken to heart.

Now that you've expressed your opinion, here's my critique: comparing the KVR forum to North Korea or China is entirely out of proportion and comes off as poor taste and rather ignorant of the reality (the reality of KVR and North Korea, and possibly overstating the Chinese oppression). If you'd been here for years and had more exposure to this forum, you might agree with those of us who feel you're out of line. Give it time and back off from your critical posture in the mean time. Try again.

The people here are quite open and friendly, given that you don't criticize their language skills unkindly (don't do it as an attack on character to win an argument; do it gently as a helpful offering of assistance), and so long as you don't jump straight into "this place is oppressive" commentary, comparing a private forum to a dictatorial and inhumane despotic nation. Yes, there's some defensiveness of developers here, as I myself mentioned. No, this isn't an environment that flatly rejects critical commentary; there's LOTS of that here.

Perhaps some would have tolerated my criticism of a few companies better had I started out with the fact that overwhelmingly my experience with software merchants and devs has been exceptionally good in general for the very vast majority. Some have literally bent over backwards to advise on setups and operationof their products when I haven't even asked them are had a trouble,. I've even ended up making great acquaintances and a couple of friends.

Since it was suggested that I didn't have long-term experience with this forum and its types of members, I reached out and asked a few who actually do know a lot about this place, one of them, it turns out, is my own manager.

Correct me (i'm sure) if you will, but I was told that you aren't supposed to speak any words of unlike for any heavy advertisers here - that the forum is paranoid in general. Also, there is a clique or 'in-crowd' who get away with practically anything short of personal attacks, while newer members are either bullied into submission or banned without even a warning or on whim. So, okay, I get it now: avoid the sacred cows, be politically correct, mouth all the things supposed to be said here, don't make waves, be a "sheeple", be dishonest to yourself, be incredibly easily offended at anything that doesn't conform to your own opinions, take everything personally

Blimey, aren't you all a rugged, self-confident and brave bunch. Real men!

[whyterabbyt]

Correct me (i'm sure) if you will, but I was told that you aren't supposed to speak any words of unlike for any heavy advertisers here

Unlikely. Primary behaviour is complaint, manifested as much as possble in repetition at any opportunity. Primary targets include the heavy advertisers. Defending developers is what gets you targetted round here.

So, okay, I get it now: avoid the sacred cows, be politically correct, mouth all the things supposed to be said here, don't make waves, be a "sheeple", be dishonest to yourself, be incredibly easily offended at anything that doesn't conform to your own opinions, take everything personally

Absolutely. But the 'sacred cows' arent what you're proposing; being 'politically correct' is 'treating every developer like the scum of the earth for having the audacity to make the toys we want to play with', and 'all the things that are supposed to be said here' consists of 'developers are primarily evil and incompetent and exist entirely to rip us off' coupled with 'even the most trivial issue is proof of developer's refusal to properly treat the customer as a living god' and a liberal sprinkling of 'my zero knowledge of business, marketing, programming or audio DSP makes me the person most fit to berate any developer over their decisions in all these areas'.

So, feel like you could fit in?

[trimph1]

Can I bring the whaaambulance out?

[Gamma-UT]

be incredibly easily offended at anything that doesn't conform to your own opinions, take everything personally

You're doing brilliantly on this bit. It's almost as though you were here in an earlier life.

[jancivil]

Perhaps some would have tolerated my criticism of a few companies better had I started out with the fact that overwhelmingly my experience with software merchants and devs has been exceptionally good in general for the very vast majority.

Yeah, maybe you will have met with a different quality of reaction. But still the tack you're on is to characterize disagreement as 'intolerance' and liken it to totalitarian government. You have not been censored, your posts have not even been edited, have they? Also:

Since it was suggested that I didn't have long-term experience with this forum and its types of members, I reached out and asked a few who actually do know a lot about this place, one of them, it turns out, is my own manager.

Correct me (i'm sure) if you will, but I was told that you aren't supposed to speak any words of unlike for any heavy advertisers here - that the forum is paranoid in general. Also, there is a clique or 'in-crowd' who get away with practically anything short of personal attacks, while newer members are either bullied into submission or banned without even a warning or on whim. So, okay, I get it now: avoid the sacred cows, be politically correct, mouth all the things supposed to be said here, don't make waves, be a "sheeple", be dishonest to yourself, be incredibly easily offended at anything that doesn't conform to your own opinions, take everything personally

Blimey, aren't you all a rugged, self-confident and brave bunch. Real men!

You have a whole story about what went on that is distorted. Nobody is taking your mini-rant on certain developers personally. You started calling someone stupid for disagreeing with you, finding your real objection was shit costs too much.

So you're here hating on the forum, basically? Look, as to 'offended', what you do here is of no real moment to my life, truly it isn't. I doubt anyone else cares much either. I suppose you're having some bad days and this is the opportunity to spread some unhappiness. I hope you start feeling better! You were told some shit by someone that doesn't seem all that familiar with the place, looks like, and that's perfect reinforcement for your issues in this thread. You jump to conclusions to suit your point-of-view, which strikes me as negative coming in. You'll find people that are negative here no problem, if finding fault with software developers in the realm of audio plugins is your thing, that's represented well enough I guess.. But what I found is someone creating the problem they wanted to locate. You as repping critical thought in the midst of "sheeple" is ludicrous, laughable. Chill out.

[Hank the Knife]

It all depends. Though at teh net it usually shows how defensive people are in general. However, that has certain reasons. Reasons, I'm not going to elaborate atm lol

[Jace-BeOS]

I tried. I give up. Horse won't drink.

[RunBeerRun]

I like the Arturia Fortuinuos ones mostlier.

[IncarnateX]

Speaking of censorship. Why was my sexist "Is it that time of the month" comment deleted when Maria's "real men" wasn't?

It is because I am a man, isn't it? Huh? That is gender based discrimination of the worst kind. I will complain to the UN and KVR will be SO sorry.

[MarlaPodolski]

Perhaps some would have tolerated my criticism of a few companies better had I started out with the fact that overwhelmingly my experience with software merchants and devs has been exceptionally good in general for the very vast majority.

Yeah, maybe you will have met with a different quality of reaction. But still the tack you're on is to characterize disagreement as 'intolerance' and liken it to totalitarian government. You have not been censored, your posts have not even been edited, have they? Also:

Since it was suggested that I didn't have long-term experience with this forum and its types of members, I reached out and asked a few who actually do know a lot about this place, one of them, it turns out, is my own manager.

Correct me (i'm sure) if you will, but I was told that you aren't supposed to speak any words of unlike for any heavy advertisers here - that the forum is paranoid in general. Also, there is a clique or 'in-crowd' who get away with practically anything short of personal attacks, while newer members are either bullied into submission or banned without even a warning or on whim. So, okay, I get it now: avoid the sacred cows, be politically correct, mouth all the things supposed to be said here, don't make waves, be a "sheeple", be dishonest to yourself, be incredibly easily offended at anything that doesn't conform to your own opinions, take everything personally

Blimey, aren't you all a rugged, self-confident and brave bunch. Real men!

You have a whole story about what went on that is distorted. Nobody is taking your mini-rant on certain developers personally. You started calling someone stupid for disagreeing with you, finding your real objection was shit costs too much.

So you're here hating on the forum, basically? Look, as to 'offended', what you do here is of no real moment to my life, truly it isn't. I doubt anyone else cares much either. I suppose you're having some bad days and this is the opportunity to spread some unhappiness. I hope you start feeling better! You were told some shit by someone that doesn't seem all that familiar with the place, looks like, and that's perfect reinforcement for your issues in this thread. You jump to conclusions to suit your point-of-view, which strikes me as negative coming in. You'll find people that are negative here no problem, if finding fault with software developers in the realm of audio plugins is your thing, that's represented well enough I guess.. But what I found is someone creating the problem they wanted to locate. You as repping critical thought in the midst of "sheeple" is ludicrous, laughable. Chill out.

FYI, I'm not hating anyone or anything. Not the forum or the bad experiences I've had with the tiny list of companies I posted. As I said, the vast majority of companies are wonderful.

While, I did think certain statements made were beyond crass and below the 5-yr.-0ld maturity, let me assure you - first, no, I am not having my period, thank you so much for asking (ever know or had a relationship with any woman ever? well, never ask that); second, I think it's even more insulting putting words into people mouths, third, I was not having a 'bad day', either, why assume so much when people post, read the words for what they are; forth, what I said was what I said, it means what is says and nothing more, imagined or otherwise. They were MY experiences. You can accept that I had them or you can reject them. Just like opinions -- your choice is to agree, disagree or keep your mouth shut.

I shouldn't have to explain any of the above to anyone having experience on any forum. In other words, you all should know this stuff.

Be very very grateful I didn't post everything I've heard from people I know who have had experience with the forum. I tried to say as little as possible while still getting the point across. Suffice it to say that this place has quite a reputation.

I spent some precious free time the other day reading far back into many threads and so on. Sorry to say, but what I've read agrees pretty closely with what people have told me.

Now, lest anyone has forgotten during their efforts to insult and slam, all I did was post 7, yes, that's a meagre 7, companies that I have had bad experiences with. I thought it more informative than going on and on about the ocean of good companies. We should all assume that most are as good with customers as they are hard-working to make exceptional product. Why? Because they naturally are. Why even ask? In any case, I listed 7 and had nothing more to say. I assumed it would be read, agreed or disagreed with, accepted or not accepted, then done.

But no. What followed was outright disgraceful. I have manners or I would have truly gone on the offensive. Believe me that I do understand the situation of the majority here. Of the many things I was told, I have come to understand that only the tiniest handful of members here are anything close to working, professional musicians or producer/engineer types. The rest of you are then what? This would definitely explain the lack or professional behaviour and manners.

We have had some real nasty attitude types audition for our all-female band in the last couple of years. Those types don't last 5 minutes in any business music-related. Just thought this worth mentioning.