Ilok busted?

[scintillator]

My thoughts exactly.

[Sampleconstruct]

Let's see how this develops in the next weeks first before prophesying doom and destruction, it was bound to happen and methods will be found to mitigate the effects.

I'm sure it's not all doom and destruction as there certainly are some shy smiles of restrained joy on the faces of people at Avid's offices when they realize that after several years of going downhill there might be an increase of the ProTool's user base.

Yes, malicious joy is the ultimate joy

[trimph1]

It really is too early to get all FUD about it.

[Mantik]

It is very interesting that it get released right before christmas. Its the time where everyone - and offcourse developers of all kind - find a time to rest from their jobs with families and such.

It is a very sinister and perverted move from the crackers to release it right now, I am sure they planned it for a longer period. Especially when they release a bunch of different plugin-packages at once.

Problems can be solved out, but image how all the people in the affected companies feel right now. It is not like 10 years before, where only the "big players" like steinberg where affected. ilok allowed small companies to evolve and built itself up paying a small team of devs for doing a fulltime job on doing amazing things for us. Do you see how good the quality of digital processing has got better and better over the years - especially from small companies?

Bad day for all of us. Merry Christmas.

I hope they burn in hell. Realy this does not help anyone. Its only counter-productive.

[Obsolete236871]

My thoughts exactly.

You haven't elaborated on your supposed inside knowledge of cracking software yet. Please answer or stop making unsubstantiated claims:

a) are you a cracker?

b) do you think that cracking software works without altering the original code - which can lead to all kinds of stability issues, BsoDs for example?

Logical thinking implies that a crack is a manipulation of a original software's code / a manipulation of the copy protection aspect of a software. Unlike you however, I don't possess any inside knowledge into cracking software and I don't have much experience with using cracked software - so you are probably the expert here and I will submit to your superior knowledge on the subject.

[robotmonkey]

@scintillator + @ robotmonkey

But I was talking about pirated / hacked / cracked versions of software that actually has copy protection. The original version of such software without any hacking into the copy protection will be far more stable, than the hacked version that can actually totally f**k up your system, since the hacking into the copy protection can involve essential parts of the OS like the registry. Illegit software thats based on a hacked copy protection is one of the safest ways to mess up your OS. It's almost like downloading Malware consciously.

That's the problem that it is not so. For example, the latest iLok plugins need no system level drivers or anything intrusive like the PACE system. And they load much faster than their legitimate counterparts on the same machine. Also several bugs from official installers seem to be fixed. So go figure.

When a copy protection is circumvented properly it definitely can increase stability and performance. This has been already constantly proven to be true, and there are even some well known infamous cases where some game developers have sent people cracks downloaded from the net to fix issues with their copy protection.

Some forms of copy protection can have sever negative effect on performance and stability. If I remember correctly some versions of Cubase (v5?) had so much copy protection code wrapped in copy protection code wrapped around the main program that the program itself turned out to be unbearably slow and unstable.

Of course there's always a chance that someone has injected malware into the installers and so on.

[trimph1]

I will wait to see what transpires over the next week or so before I go all FUD here.

[Mushy Mushy]

...

[Boardwalk]

Funny how the criminal mind works: cracking seems to be okaaay but when iLok is cracked, some people seem to have found a 'reason' to be indignant.

[EnGee]

It is not good news IMO.

The developers who used iLok, have been concentrating on improving their software and didn't concern themselves about the protection. Now, if every developer would implement his/her protection algorithm, checking what has been cracked or not ..etc , all that would waste a valuable time, better direct it towards the software itself.

If the piracy doesn't affect the developers a lot, they would not consider solutions like iLok to protect their software! Anyway, I hope there always be a propaganda against piracy and always give it the image as theft. This is a long term solution IMO, so people look at Piracy with disdain (already many feel this way), at least those who can buy the software or saving for it!

[Obsolete236871]

... For example, the latest iLok plugins need no system level drivers or anything intrusive like the PACE system...

When a copy protection is circumvented properly it definitely can increase stability and performance...

Some forms of copy protection can have sever negative effect on performance and stability. If I remember correctly some versions of Cubase (v5?) had so much copy protection code wrapped in copy protection code wrapped around the main program that the program itself turned out to be unbearably slow and unstable.

Of course there's always a chance that someone has injected malware into the installers and so on.

That's quite interesting. Are you talking about the software-only Ilok (the ones without a need for a dongle)? That might explain why they were easy to crack.

Didn't know about the Cubase case. I use a legit 6.5 version of Cubase and often wondered why it is comparably slow. Maybe it partly has to do with the elicenser / copy protection.

"when a copy protection is circumvented properly..." - I would bet that this is not the case most of the time and through the grapevine I heard a lot of negative reports from people using cracked software. I personally wouldn't want to risk the stability of my music computer by using possibly malicious cracked software.

Funny how the criminal mind works: cracking seems to be okaaay but when iLok is cracked, some people seem to have found a 'reason' to be indignant.

What gives you the impression that cracking is okay? I personally don't like the idea of using cracked software very much and I also don't like the idea that you just take something that another person invested his time and mental power into, without giving the creator anything back. If a software seems too expensive to me, I would rather just not use it and go for an alternate software instead that is actually affordable to me.

We have many talented developers with very fair and affordable pricing schemes around (thinking Klanghelm, Toneboosters, Tokyo Dawn, Valhalla and such) and even established developers, who put their rather expensive products on sale from time to time. Soundtoys is giving away some of their little plugins for a charity currently and Plugin Alliance have an Advent Calendar with heavily reduced prices for their otherwise rather (in my opinion) overpriced products. Why would I fill my HD up with unreliable, malware-infected cracked software from unreliable sources?

[Urs]

I'm afraid the biggest losers of this situation are the companies that offer reasonably priced software without intrusive copy protection. Many people will think "hey, why buy the budget version if I can get the pro stuff for free".

One needs to keep in mind that the iLok ecosystem is not only about copy protection but also about "being upmarket". That is, for a company to be successful in this realm, you need to either be cracked ("can't afford not to") or boutique (not cracked but price up). The opposites however don't mix.

I for one pray for a day where building AAX does not involve iLok dongles on each developer machine and build server. It's an unnecessary obstacle that cost us a lot of time (just yesterday everything stopped for a few hours, again). It's the obscurity and the helplessness that bugs me.

All in all I think the developers and the users would be better off without iLoks. But maybe also I'm just miffed with people who profit from piracy, on both sides of the fence.

[kmonkey]

I'm afraid the biggest losers of this situation are the companies that offer reasonably priced software without intrusive copy protection. Many people will think "hey, why buy the budget version if I can get the pro stuff for free".

One needs to keep in mind that the iLok ecosystem is not only about copy protection but also about "being upmarket". That is, for a company to be successful in this realm, you need to either be cracked ("can't afford not to") or boutique (not cracked but price up). The opposites however don't mix.

I for one pray for a day where building AAX does not involve iLok dongles on each developer machine and build server. It's an unnecessary obstacle that cost us a lot of time (just yesterday everything stopped for a few hours, again). It's the obscurity and the helplessness that bugs me.

All in all I think the developers and the users would be better off without iLoks. But maybe also I'm just miffed with people who profit from piracy, on both sides of the fence.

Interesting point of view.

Your company seems survived all these years. As NI and others. Without using ilok. As i see it (from the user point of view) - your way is best of all:

Offer me top quality product and top quality support and further development - under reasonable price (and please don't harrase me with protection and don't whine me about cracks)

I really do like what you are doing there and hopefully more of "alike" will surface. Klanghelm and Valhalla comes to my mind.


Thanks for making opinion.

p.s. i am finding it hilarious that over at Gearslutz you can't even mention "ilok" and anything related to being compromised they will delete your thread and issue you warning - under "yo uare not allowd to discuss cracks". Like we are all cracking. They at Gearslutz pretend like it did not happened. Look i am not going to talk about some sort of failure so it will not worry me. I will live forevvva...weee..haha .

So much about being free to discuss and discuss it with developers. How can we learn to develop point of view if not like this? By using communication over public forum.


Anyway thanks again..All the best and hopefully your company won't "feel" any sale drop because of ilok2 being cracked.

[Obsolete236871]

Hey Urs,

thank you for your perspective. For me it goes quite the other way around. I think: with many well developed and affordable quality products around nowadays, why would I use an unreliable cracked plugin? Yes, the idea of freely using a plugin that usually retails at 300€ seems quite attractive at first sight, but then I realize that:

1) a lot of these 300€ plugins are not worth their enormous price in the first place

2) that I might get possibly malicious software when using a crack and

3) that I can often get a competitive product by an "indie developer" for much less, while supporting said "indie developer" at the same time, so that they will continue to develope great products for audio enthusiasts like us.

[samsam]

I've read shitloads about all this in the last few hours

My conclusion is that I have absolutely nothing of interest to say on the matter

Cheers!