Acoustic Grand Piano libraries/emulations: An Overview (audio demos of some pianos added)

[Fleer]

Thanks for your take on the Imperfect Samples Fazioli, Ingo.
Still, waiting for that sweet Wavesfactory Mercury. Demos are incredible. And 30 GB is still OK.

[Ingonator]

For both testing the Imperfect Samples Fazioli Ebony Basic i just bought and also to compare it two of my other libraries (XLN Addictive Keys Studio Grand which is based on a Steinway Model D and NI Alicia's Keys which is based on a Yamaha C3 Neo) i used a collection of 10 MIDI files (not recorded by myself !!) to render tracks wit those 3 pianos.

The tracks/demos were done without built-in effects and as external effetcs moderate amounts of Waves H-Comp compressor and a Lexicon MXR Native reverb were used. The XLN Studio Grand was used with the close tube mic position. The Basic version of the Fazioli Ebpny has 1 mic position, 8 velocity layers and 7 GB of size (uncompressed). No EQ has been used (no built-in and also no external).

Here are the audio demos (9 tracks for each piano):

A) Imperfect Samples Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand Basic:

Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.2_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.3_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.3_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Für Elise_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Debussy - Claire De Lune_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Chopin Op 39_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano

B) XLN Audio Addictive Keys Studio Grand:

Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_XLN Studio Grand
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.2_XLN Studio Grand
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.3_XLN Studio Grand
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_XLN Studio Grand
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.3_XLN Studio Grand
Beethoven - Für Elise_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_XLN Studio Grand
Debussy - Claire De Lune_XLN Studio Grand
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_XLN Studio Grand
Chopin Op 39_XLN Studio Grand

C) NI Alicia's Keys:

Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_Alicia's Keys
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.2_Alicia's Keys
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.3_Alicia's Keys
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_Alicia's Keys
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.3_Alicia's Keys
Beethoven - Für Elise_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_Alicia's Keys
Debussy - Claire De Lune_Alicia's Keys
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_Alicia's Keys
Chopin Op 39_Alicia's Keys




In those demos the 3 pianos sound really differnt and those are not just subtle differences.
Due to that it seems to be good to have all three, depending on which kind of sound you are searching for in a specific track.
Anyway i am quite impresed by the Imperfect Samples Fazioli, especially as this is "only" the smallest and cheapest Basic version (for around 55 €). I could imagine that the Extreme version (262 GB opposing to 7 GB for the Basic) must be really stunning. Same for some otehr Fazioli libraries while the approach taht Imperfect Sampes uses seems to be quite unique.
The Imperfect Samples Fazioli seems to have a very full tone with a graet low end and especially at medium velocity and in the mid key range could sound very warm.
One of my favorite audio demos from those above is the Fazioli playing Beethoven Moonlight Sonata mvt.1.
Simply beautiful IMO.


BTW for all 3 pianos used for those demos together i paid less than 160 € where Alicia's Keys was second hand and the XLN Studio Grand at a discount.

[fmr]

I have to say that I am disappointed with the Fazioli. It isn't in any way representative of the sound of a real Fazioli.It's completely muddy, as if the sound had been extremely filtered. This particularly noticeable in the Revolutionary and the in 1st movement of the Appasionata, two pieces where we can fully realize the dynamic capabilities of a piano (and THIS Fazioli showed it lack heavily in that aspect). Sure it can sound sweet in the 1st of the Moonlight, but any good piano HAS to sound beautiful in that movement if it is well played and the library is well built.

Another thing. The reverb used is Alicia Keys is too much. You should look for a much smaller room, preferably a piano room.

Also the Alicia Keys lacked dynamics, and loses in this aspect to the XLN. Amazingly, it was the XLN that became my choice of the three, especially in the Appasionata. Which shows how these libraries are sill miles away of fully reflect what a real Grand can do musically. In a mix they can sound convincing, but when we listen to the piano solo, and in pieces where the dynamics are called to show, many (some really expensive) libraries show how they fail.

BTW: The MIDI rendition of the Revolutionary is not good - it lacks pauses and suspensions, and the pedal is compeltely wrong in some passages. If you want I can send you a better rendition, that will allow you to better judge these different pianos.

[Ingonator]

I have to say that I am disappointed with the Fazioli. It isn't in any way representative of the sound of a real Fazioli.It's completely muddy, as if the sound had been extremely filtered. This particularly noticeable in the Revolutionary and the in 1st movement of the Appasionata, two pieces where we can fully realize the dynamic capabilities of a piano (and THIS Fazioli showed it lack heavily in that aspect). Sure it can sound sweet in the 1st of the Moonlight, but any good piano HAS to sound beautiful in that movement if it is well played and the library is well built.

Another thing. The reverb used is Alicia Keys is too much. You should look for a much smaller room, preferably a piano room.

Also the Alicia Keys lacked dynamics, and loses in this aspect to the XLN. Amazingly, it was the XLN that became my favouyrite of the three, especially in the Appasionata. Which shows how these libraries are sill miles away of fully reflect what a real Grand can do musically. In a mix they can sound convincing, but when we listen to the piano solo, and in pieces where the dynamics are called to show, many (some really expensive) libraries show how they fail.

BTW: The MIDI rendition of the Revolutionary is not good - it lacks pauses and suspensions, and the pedal is compeltely wrong in some passages. If you want I can send you a better rendition, that will allow you to better judge these different pianos.

First i want to say that for each of the tracks i have a differnt favorite of the 3 pianos while the XLN Studio Grand is maybe the best "allround" piano from those. For tracks taht need a more "aggressive" tone teh Studio Grand seems to be great.
I did not do this test to find the "best" of those but to better see at which kind of tracks they seem to fit better and also to comprare the character of those 3 pianos.
Maybe later i will post a list with only my favorite piano for each track and maybe i will also do comparisons with other pinaos like e.g. NI The Grandeur, Arturia Piano V or TruePianos.

No internal Reverb was used and the same one was used for all demos (the one mentioned at my post with teh demos).

Well, the Imperfect Samples Fazioli seems to use a slightly other approach than other Faziloi libraries (also on how the velocity response works) and it seems to soudn good as it is, especially for more quiet pieces. This is the first Fazioli library i have used so i could not directly compare and i also never played a real Fazioli. This is also the Basic version of the Ebony Grand ind i giess the bigger versions should be even better than this. The Extreme version includes 5 microphone positions (1 in the Basic), more velocity layers and both "imperfect" and "perfect" samples wher perfect also means with no hammer noise etc.

Alicia'a Keys and the Yamaha C3 Neo it is based on are not exactly perfect for classical pieces but i used it for the comparion anyway. It seems to be better for the more quiet/mellow sounding tracks.

FWIW i listened to audio demos of the Ivory II Italian Grand and those sounded super clean, very precise and also "sterile" to me compared to e.g. the Imperfect samples Fazioli. I am not the only oen who noticed this, there seem to be f a few comments like that in the web.

Anyway also libraries that are based on the Steinway Model D seem to sound quite differnt. I also got NI The Grandeur that sounds quite differnt to the XLN Studio Grand while both are based on samples of a Steinway Model D.

It is possible that other Fazioli libraries are better than this (inckuding teh upcoming Wavesfactory Mercuy) but this is my first Fazioli library and due to the price (which currently at around 55 € is the cheapest Fazioli AFAIK) it sounds great as it is.


UPDATE:
I just added Beethoven's "Für Elise" to the demos posted above.

[Ingonator]

Until October 10th (next Monday) The UVI Grand Piano Collection seems to be available for 89 € (= 40% off):
http://www.uvi.net/en/pianos-keyboards/ ... ction.html

This isncludes Steinway D Concert Grand, Fazioli F278 Concert Grand, Yamaha C7 Concert Grand, Erard Baby Grand Piano and Seiler Upright Grand.

[logburner]

Until October 10th (next Monday) The UVI Grand Piano Collection seems to be available for 89 € (= 40% off):
http://www.uvi.net/en/pianos-keyboards/ ... ction.html

This isncludes Steinway D Concert Grand, Fazioli F278 Concert Grand, Yamaha C7 Concert Grand, Erard Baby Grand Piano and Seiler Upright Grand.

As an owner of UVI Steinway D and F278, I'd be hesitant to recommend the deal to be honest.

F278 is great, it need a bit of eqing to get clear and balanced sound but pretty responsive to input velocities (8 layers) and it sounds decent to start with. Steinway D, I'm not sure. It only has 5 velocity layers and the piano sounds are sample at every other note. It certainly has that Steinway D sound, but I wouldn't pay to get this library (I got this at KVR market offer which made this free with any purchase).

Regards to the rest of the stuff, I wouldn't expect much from them after listening to some demos. I'd rather save up and get Wavesfactory Fazioli which will be released 1st Nov for 99 Euros at intro offer.

[Fleer]

It's not bad as a bundle. And you get a coupon for another $20/€20 off if you've already got that (free) D, making it $69/€69.

[logburner]

It's not bad as a bundle. And you get another 10% or so if you've already got that (free) D.

Maybe. Meanwhile I'd like to own a few great sounding libraries than lots of so so stuff.

[Fleer]

True, but I like to have it in UVI. Sure it's not as good as my ImpactSoundworks Pearl Grand or ProductionVoices Grand Gold, to name a few.
Wavesfactory Mercury will be another great grand, just listen to those wonderful demos. Out Nov. 1.

[fmr]

It's not bad as a bundle. And you get another 10% or so if you've already got that (free) D.

Maybe. Meanwhile I'd like to own a few great sounding libraries than lots of so so stuff.

I find the UVI collection very good (at least for classical solo piano, which is where I evaluate ANY piano library), and a steal for the current price. And the Fazioli in there sounds much better than the one in the examples Ingo posted, IMO.

BTW: I also always test these libraries against True Pianos, which still stands against any library I try, expecially the old Diamond module and the newest Atlantis module. I just wish they would keep developing it, but since George Yohng is now working for VSL, I think he will not have the time to develop it further (and maybe contractually he is not able to to it either). I don't know at which extent the VSL piano libraries include the technologies that first appeared in the 4Front True Pianos.

[logburner]

It's not bad as a bundle. And you get another 10% or so if you've already got that (free) D.

Maybe. Meanwhile I'd like to own a few great sounding libraries than lots of so so stuff.

I find the UVI collection very good (at least for classical solo piano, which is where I evaluate ANY piano library), and a steal for the current price. And the Fazioli in there sounds much better than the one in the examples Ingo posted, IMO.

BTW: I also always test these libraries against True Pianos, which still stands against any library I try, expecially the old Diamond module and the newest Atlantis module. I just wish they would keep developing it, but since George Yohng is now working for VSL, I think he will not have the time to develop it further (and maybe contractually he is not able to to it either). I don't know at which extent the VSL piano libraries include the technologies that first appeared in the 4Front True Pianos.

Don't get me wrong, they do sound good. I'm just saying that except for F278, they don't quite cut it in this day and age when there are plenty of excellent sounding libraries like Ivory, Galaxy, NI, Pianoteq, Imperfect Samples, Vienna, True Keys, Piano In Blue, Garritan CFX and new Bechstein to name a few.

Regards to Fazioli, UVI (Acousticsamples, actually) F278 sounds more true to the original piano sound. OTOH Imperfect Fazioli sounds very warm and intimate, though I won't deny that the high freq is heavily filtered to a point boosting with high shelf eq wouldn't bring "the lost air" back in. It has a very distinct character and if you like it, you'll love it. I do.

So Imperfect Fazioli is excellent for certain applications where the character fits in, but not as versatile as one would hope. That's why I'm extremely looking forward to the Wavesfactory Fazioli. It has 5 mic positions with 8 layers and 4 round robins implemented, plus HQ mode which taxes CPU quite heavily but makes the transitions between layers more smooth. The demos sound just fantastic. I wouldn't hesitate to say it has huge potential to be one of the best piano libraries at this point. And the price! 99 Euros at intro! Look how much Imperfect Fazioli (Complete and Extreme) or Ivory Fazioli cost! It's a steal!

[Ingonator]

So Imperfect Fazioli is excellent for certain applications where the character fits in, but not as versatile as one would hope.

Well, this is one of the points why i made the demos that i posted at the beginning of this page.

The Imperfect Samples Fazioli seems to sound great for certain applications while it maybe does not fit so good in others.

With all 10 demos i posted for each of the 3 pianos there seems to be one piano that fits better for that specific track.

For me the Imperfect Samples Fazioli fits better to the more quiet and/or intimate ones while for the tracks that need a more bright and/or "aggressive" sound the XLN Studio Grand seems to be better.

Anyway i only got the Basic version of the Imperfect Samples Fazioli and have not tried tweaking it withan EQ yet. The demos i posted were all without an EQ to have a better comparison of the raw sound.

Alicia's Keys has a quite unique sound and is also better suited for the more quiet/intimate tracks.

[fmr]

So Imperfect Fazioli is excellent for certain applications where the character fits in, but not as versatile as one would hope.

Sounds muddy. It's helpless. A true Fazioli would never sound like that. Remember where the name piano comes from? Pianoforte, because it can play piano AND forte. A real piano (especially a Grand) is able to play simultaneously with sweetness as in the 1st movement of the Moonlight, and with deep and grandeur as in the 3rd movement of the same sonata (or transition from one to the other as in the Raindrop Prelude from Chopin). If you can't do both with a piano library, and without using anything else than velocity, then it is not well done.

That's why I'm extremely looking forward to the Wavesfactory Fazioli. It has 5 mic positions with 8 layers and 4 round robins implemented, plus HQ mode which taxes CPU quite heavily but makes the transitions between layers more smooth. The demos sound just fantastic.
I wouldn't hesitate to say it has huge potential to be one of the best piano libraries at this point. And the price! 99 Euros at intro! Look how much Imperfect Fazioli (Complete and Extreme) or Ivory Fazioli cost! It's a steal!

With just 8 layers, I don't know. The demos don't show nothing special, IMO. No real challening piece or passage was played. But yes, at a price of $99,00, it really has no competition in what concerns the Fazioli sound.

[logburner]

I have a Complete version of Imperfect Fazioli and all 3 mic positions have more or less similar character of warm, intimate and sort of vintage i.e. almost nothing above 10khz range.

On one of the youtube demo, it shows 5 different mic perspectives and perspective 4 seems to have more high freq content. I'd love to upgrade my Complete to Extreme if it has more high air in the perspective 4, but there's no way I could listen in detail...

[logburner]

So Imperfect Fazioli is excellent for certain applications where the character fits in, but not as versatile as one would hope.

Sounds muddy. It's helpless. A true Fazioli would never sound like that. Remember where the name piano comes from? Pianoforte, because it can play piano and forte. A real piano is able to play simultaneously sweet as in the 1st movement of the Moonlight, and with deep and grandeur as in the 3rd movement. If you can't do both with a piano library, and without using anything else than velocity, then it is not well done.

That's why I'm extremely looking forward to the Wavesfactory Fazioli. It has 5 mic positions with 8 layers and 4 round robins implemented, plus HQ mode which taxes CPU quite heavily but makes the transitions between layers more smooth. The demos sound just fantastic.
I wouldn't hesitate to say it has huge potential to be one of the best piano libraries at this point. And the price! 99 Euros at intro! Look how much Imperfect Fazioli (Complete and Extreme) or Ivory Fazioli cost! It's a steal!

With just 8 layers, I don't know. The demos don't show nothing special, IMO. No real challening piece or passage was played. But yes, at a price of $99,00, it really has no competition in what concerns the Fazioli sound.

I'm sorry to hear that the Imperfect Fazioli doesn't do anything for you. Some people like me seem to love the texture though.

So you don't like the Wavesfactory one either? Have you listened to all the demos incl Rachmaninov and Blue In Green? I don't know but those who prioritise the responsiveness with fast passages tend to choose Pianoteq over anything.