iLok 3rd generation- all metal design- anyone have one yet?

[robotmonkey]

But thanks for the correction.

You were suggesting that everything has been fine for Pace after the initial breach, which is just not true.

But you're welcome

[blue monk]

ProTools Expert writes iLok2 owners 'should' not have to get an iLok3.
I don't know about that 'should' though. Not definitive.

The new iLok3 is fully backward compatible with previous versions – so all software developed for use with a 2nd generation iLok will continue to work with a 3rd generation iLok. This means that there should be no need to have to buy an iLok3 for software compatibility, as there are no relevant design changes with the iLok3, unlike the changes from the original iLoks to the iLok2, where a number of brands licenses were no longer compatible with the original iLoks

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... -exclusive

This site also quotes the iLok3 FAQ:

You do not need to purchase a new iLok to continue working. Note that some software requires second generation or better iLoks.

Again that doesn't sound 100% reassuring. It leaves the possibility open that some developers could require v.3 in the future. However if I understand correctly, the technical functionality of the protection mechanisms work the same way.

In general I try to avoid iLok licenses as much as possible. Licensing on your computer means that if it breaks (the computer), your licenses are lost. With the dongle you can pay for insurance (ZDT) and have licenses on a broken iLok replaced.
I have been told, these replacements are temporary, so I don't know if ZDT is helpful at all except for immediacy. Still the developer could refuse new permanent licenses.. Don't know how that is handled in real life.

[Compyfox]

You were suggesting that everything has been fine for Pace after the initial breach, which is just not true.

But you're welcome

I should have written (on page 3), additional to my paragraph on the "breach" thing:
"Though there was indeed the one or another random 'odd release' after that".

Penny pinching, really.

Again that doesn't sound 100% reassuring. It leaves the possibility open that some developers could require v.3 in the future. However if I understand correctly, the technical functionality of the protection mechanisms work the same way.

Well... I do remember that the iLok1 and iLok2 did run in parallel for a couple of weeks until the manager was "forced" (and the "iLokalypse" happened). This is what they're aiming at with the incompatibility. Though during the "switch time", there were plugins that already insisted on iLok2 only (Slate Digital being among the forerunners).

Chances are that Pace will change something in their drivers, which does address the iLok3 primarily, and then the iLok2 is obsolete.

At this stage - it's just a guessing game. But it's good to be skeptical. If somebody can tell us what will happen in the future, it's the developer themselves.

I have been told, these replacements are temporary, so I don't know if ZDT is helpful at all except for immediacy. Still the developer could refuse new permanent licenses.. Don't know how that is handled in real life.

I ran into this issue before, so did others. Most of the time the companies are like "you're a legit customer, you get the license back of course". Though there is always a 1% chance that one company is like "nope!". But you barely read about that - even though you do hear the most crazy stories and uproar most of the time however.

[kocio21]

I should have written (on page 3), additional to my paragraph on the "breach" thing:
"Though there was indeed the one or another random 'odd release' after that".

Penny pinching, really.

Sorry man, but you are stubborn and reluctant to facts. Since first breach in December 2015 there is constant stream of Ilok 2 "protected" software. I looked up a bit and it's pretty much everything besides some really niche things.

In the other thread you were crying that D16 version of Slate new reverb is vulnerable to cracking and it's bad for Ilok users. So guess what. Slate reverb was cracked the very day it came out and it's Ilok version that got cracked. What now?

That's how long it takes to compromise newest PACE security - few hours.

[Compyfox]

Oh now I'm crying, I'm stubborn and "reluctant to facts". Right... whatever floats your boat.

I don't deny that the iLok has been compromised, you seem to have a problem with "how often I saw it". In fact, I just did some Google Fu again, and you know what... this weekend was a huge surge of releases again (not just Slate Digital, but also McDSP, Kush Audio, etc). Before that, it was like random down to April. Some of the reports on these... releases even saying "doesn't work". So what, it's penny pinching really.


Fact is, that it happened (the compromise - and it took these people YEARS to do so, 5 years in fact - it's the 6th year of the iLok2 now)
Fact is, that we're now being introduced to the iLok3
Fact is, that this might be(!) an answer to the recent server issues, the compromises, the slow loading times

What I find the most sad part however, is Pace being Pace. They constantly let us in the dark if something happens, what the future might bring, etc. Only the devs forward that piece of into, and they're just as clueless sometimes. I'm fairly certain at this point that we're experiencing a transition period and that the iLok3 might(!) turn into exactly that - a new key, a different form of security. The game starts new and it's only a matter of time until "that" particular security system has been breached as well.


I've been saying that since page 1.

Everything else is just pointing fingers and being like "you're wrong, you have no idea, iLok sucks and you know it". Fine, it's your opinion (plural) - I accept that. Although it's super annoying to read such commentary in every darn thread where CP schemes are only slightly talked about (example: "this plugin looks intersting, but it might use Pace/iLok", "yeah, f*ck iLok! I hate that thing, no company will get any business with me if they continue doing that!", "yeah, iLok sucks! Always punshed the users and sh*t!" -- it happens all the damn time. Oh hey, Call and Response is so much better, no?!).

But I agree to disagree with you and remain skeptical as to what is happening, compared to what has been advertised so far.



With that said... could we please go back to talking in an objective manner rather than finger pointing who is ultimately in the wrong, and why "this thing sucks"?! Because if not, then welcome to one in a 100 threads in recent weeks that got derailed and ultimately locked/deleted withing hours/days.

[koolkeys]

Well I can report back on the blue glowing light, for those who are interested, lol. I went ahead and had one shipped to me. I've attached a picture to show the difference in the light. It isn't as bright as the iLok2 because it is literally just a millimeter wide 'dot' light, if that. The attached picture is not in the dark, but just a shadow from me blocking the light. It actually lights up quite well in the dark, but again, not as bright as the iLok2 did.

The iLok3 is most definitely a significantly smaller model. I haven't registered it yet or transferred anything to it, but it does feel quite solid. But small and more slippery than the old model. It is a little harder to get out of the port. You can see the size difference in my attached picture as well. It is MUCH thinner, as the body is no thicker than the part of a USB stick that gets plugged in (which obviously, the end of the iLok3 IS what gets plugged in).

So yeah, haven't tested anything out with software yet, but for those concerned about the blue light, see the picture, lolol.

ilok3.jpg

Brent

[Compyfox]

Seeing as Germany still needs to wait until 8th November bar minimum, I'm currently sucking up pieces of info like a sponge.

If you happen to have Slate Digital's Virtual Mix Rack, and more than 5 (or even 10) licenses unlocked, can you maybe compare the load times? This would be great to know, and thanks in advance

[koolkeys]

Seeing as Germany still needs to wait until 8th November bar minimum, I'm currently sucking up pieces of info like a sponge.

If you happen to have Slate Digital's Virtual Mix Rack, and more than 5 (or even 10) licenses unlocked, can you maybe compare the load times? This would be great to know, and thanks in advance

I have the slate VCC and Trigger EX from Slate Digital. So the VCC is probably best to test it with. But not exactly a large number of items to authorize, so I don't know if it will work.

I do have the Duende Native basic bundle with 7 plugins, and an old version of the Integral Bundle with 13 items (Blue Tubes, etc.). Those are my largest bundles. I think everything else is single plugins or smaller bundles.

Can't do it tonight, but maybe tomorrow. What method of testing would be sufficient for this? Just a stopwatch type of thing? Or is there a utility I can use to be more accurate?

Brent

[Compyfox]

Especially with Slate Digital plugins, at least the modern ones with many sub-licenses (hence why I asked for Virtual Mix Rack) can take fairly long to load with the first instance. So if you happen to be on Windows, these numbers would be great to know.


Testing is fairly simple:
Fire up the host, create a clean project, create one AUDIO Channel, simply load the first instance of VMR from the iLok2, measure the time. Then move all licenses to the iLok3, and do the same test again. If there are significant improvements in the loading time... et voila, the USB key is indeed faster in terms of communication between the key, the manager and the software in question.

[dc16]

@Compyfox

Don't get me wrong but I think that the fact ilok is crack*d it's good to developers, mostly. Senteces like this simply does not have any sense:

Andrew Kirk, Vice President of PACE Anti-Piracy:

Since its release 16 years ago, the iLok hardware device has never been compromised. the 3rd generation iLok provides a publisher with the most secure tools in the industry. Period.

You also know that ilok 3 is crack*d, right?

I do not use software protected by ilok but developers should think twice before compromising costumers experience. Crack*d software has been reported in a very well know Forum by being faster and more stable that the one protected by ilok.

Also on contrary you're refering Scuffham has been crack*d along with ALL plugins from Softube, Eventide, Steven Slate, ReLab, Lexicon, Audified, Mathew Lane, Zynaptiq, Softube, Avid (including latest version of ProTools), Solid State Logic, Kush, Exponential Audio, SoundToys, AIR Music, Sly-Fi, Eiosis, etc. And this just to name a few... A simple google search can show you this.

Very sincerly I think the concept of ilok is awesome. However, the way people see it is not functional, it would be better if it was implemented and seen in two ways:

1) costumer could use a standard usb pen;
2) used to have the licenses ALL in the same place.

iLok should be seen as a portability and acessiblity tool rather than a protection tool. It has nothing about protection, all 3 versions of iLok are compromised already.

PS - Even Cubase 8 is crack*d, along with e-licenser software.

[chk071]

I do not use software protected by ilok but developers should think twice before compromising costumers experience. Crack*d software has been reported in a very well know Forum by being faster and more stable that the one protected by ilok.

Well, it would have been surprising if it wasn't. You know. having gotten rid of the protection, and all that.

[robotmonkey]

@Compyfox

Don't get me wrong but I think that the fact ilok is crack*d it's good to developers, mostly. Senteces like this simply does not have any sense:

Andrew Kirk, Vice President of PACE Anti-Piracy:

Since its release 16 years ago, the iLok hardware device has never been compromised. the 3rd generation iLok provides a publisher with the most secure tools in the industry. Period.

You also know that ilok 3 is crack*d, right?

Also on contrary you're refering Scuffham has been crack*d along with ALL plugins from...

I think you're not supposed to name any names. It's a big no no. The general consensus here seems to be that it's better to be either uninformed or have your head in a sand as this makes everything ok when you pretend nothing has happened. Don't mind we live in an age of Google.

[Compyfox]

And we're back to that discussion rather than talking about the release, speed, etc.

You also know that ilok 3 is crack*d, right?

"iLok3" is cracked, because it currently uses the routines of iLok2. If Pace introduces a shift in drivers, then chances are the key/manager interaction changes and the gap is closed again.

So no, the "USB key" in itself has not been "cracked" (except for the case, and some broken PCBs that users complain about - heh). Most of the time, the "driver/manager" interaction was removed, which results in the commentary "it's smaller, it's faster". Well, no surprise there.

Fine prints, really!

I do not use software protected by ilok but developers should think twice before compromising costumers experience. Crack*d software has been reported in a very well know Forum by being faster and more stable that the one protected by ilok.

"Very well known Forum" - sure is not GearSlutz or KVR. The "very well known forums" on this topic are only known to those that walked the path before, still do or whatever. And even then, I wouldn't consider them "well known" or "super educational", but rather niché and in some case downright insulting towards developers and users. "Praise us, or get kicked out".

What other forum does that remind me off, the one that does Triple Blind Tests on audio CODECs and kicks you out if you don't have a "degree" in this realm, or understand and accept "Replay Gain" over ITU-R BS.1770-x specs? I think it has something to do with the chemical H1 and something related to the audio realm... but I digress...

And yes - I know of these various argumentations - not only as beta tester for xyz companies.

Very sincerly I think the concept of ilok is awesome. However, the way people see it is not functional, it would be better if it was implemented and seen in two ways:

1) costumer could use a standard usb pen;
2) used to have the licenses ALL in the same place.

And we're down that rabbit hole again. This commentary has been going on for 15+ years at this point. Guess it'll never die out. I mean... look at Waves and the Plugin Alliance who use the "one random USB key for licenses)... are these licenses "secure"? Not really IMO.

Portable? Yes, but you still have to direct each and every plugin on another rig to this particular USB key, while both iLok and Elicenser are only like "driver is installed, plug it in, done".

PS - Even Cubase 8 is crack*d, along with e-licenser software.

Google Fu: Cubase Elements is not Cubase Pro - and Elements doesn't use the Elicenser USB key. Unless you like to access Hindi pages...

Again, the fine print...

I think you're not supposed to name any names. It's a big no no. The general consensus here seems to be that it's better to be either uninformed or have your head in a sand as this makes everything ok when you pretend nothing has happened. Don't mind we live in an age of Google.

I don't think it's a big no-no to name companies that are affected. I mean, they will pop up eventually in other threads that are just as derailed with "I don't support the iLok because <insert reason here>, <insert hate there>, <don't forget to scold iLok users as well>"

In fact, this whole topic (Copy Protection, which inevitably leads to warez debates, what's good and what's not, what is righteous and what not, who is an "apparent supporter" and is not) is constantly brushed under the rug or removed. Heck the last discussion was removed, because somebody was like "Okay, enough, time to lock this... whoops? I also moved this to the hidden forum section". (remember, the one with U-HE as guest feature - which was actually informative for once!)

We must be able to openly talk about this. As long as it remains civil and open minded, and no "links" are given (these days, 2-3 keywords in Google uncover that anyway). Putting out mind at ease, have one global thread about this, no constant derails of others.

Then again we won't be able to change the world however.







And with that said, I try to re-rail the thread once more:

@koolkeys:
How are the tests coming along?


ALSO - Update on availability in Germany:
Now Just Music also lists it as "available from (presumably) 08-NOV-2016" for 49EUR incl VAT

[dc16]

I think you're not supposed to name any names. It's a big no no. The general consensus here seems to be that it's better to be either uninformed or have your head in a sand as this makes everything ok when you pretend nothing has happened. Don't mind we live in an age of Google.

And why is that? I don't see any wrong with it, this companies didn't do anything wrong. They exist to help us.

That kind of mentality (not yours or your comment) of "pretend nothing has happened" remind me of the price tags when instead of label it $10 they label it $9.99. If I was a government authority I would implement a law forbidden that, it's simply contraditory. Basically the companies are saying to you: "I am trying to trick you inconscientely".

But ok. Since I'm new here I certainly will follow the rules.

And we're back to that discussion rather than talking about the release, speed, etc.

Sorry, I just though you talked too much nonsense and wanted to enlighten you, in a good way. Because you might not know you're making wrong statements and can fool yourself. I will stop it now...

If Pace introduces a shift in drivers, then chances are the key/manager interaction changes and the gap is closed again.

Ok then... If you say so. ; )

"Very well known Forum" - sure is not GearSlutz or KVR. The "very well known forums" on this topic are only known to those that walked the path before, still do or whatever. And even then, I wouldn't consider them "well known" or "super educational", but rather niché and in some case downright insulting towards developers and users. "Praise us, or get kicked out".

GearSlutz and yet another one more selective I will not tell here. Plus there isn't anything wrong discussing it I just made the same "type" of comment and yet I do not support it. It's just a comment damn.

And we're down that rabbit hole again. This commentary has been going on for 15+ years at this point. Guess it'll never die out. I mean... look at Waves and the Plugin Alliance who use the "one random USB key for licenses)... are these licenses "secure"? Not really IMO.

Look, I'm very new to all of this. I just bought Logic Pro X, Mjuc, ProC2 and ProQ2. I do not know what was been said over the last 15 years because, well, like I said I just started. However, if it was been said over 15 years then something is wrong, don't you agree. It was just my perspective, I really like the concept... the concept.

Google Fu: Cubase Elements is not Cubase Pro - and Elements doesn't use the Elicenser USB key. Unless you like to access Hindi pages...

Did I said Elements? No. But if it makes right then I trow the "Pro" word on it so there's no doubts. And VSL is also crack*d. And no, it's not "hindi" pages. I found it because I start learning how to develop plugins and that "forum" had an article that actually sent me over here.


Hey, look my comment was seen with the wrong perspective. I'm not here to argue or fight with you so will leave this thread now, you just seem a very angry person, take it easy and educate before making assumptions.

I'm just curious about things and that's why I know what I know, I registered at kvr because I started to learn how to code and develop some Audio Unit I have in mind, then while reading the forum randomly found this thread. The ilok "concept" do interest me because I also have an idea to a product too but with other function in mind.

Sorry about any disturbance.

[Compyfox]

And we're back to that discussion rather than talking about the release, speed, etc.

Sorry, I just though you talked too much nonsense and wanted to enlighten you, in a good way. Because you might not know you're making wrong statements and can fool yourself. I will stop it now...

Sorry, but...
*pft* hahahahahahahahahahahahaHaHaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... haaaaah... sorry...
hahahahahahahahaha.....

If Pace introduces a shift in drivers, then chances are the key/manager interaction changes and the gap is closed again.

Ok then... If you say so. ; )

In fact, I'm fairly certain that this will happen eventually. Pace doesn't do such a release just for "aesthetic purposes".

GearSlutz and yet another one more selective I will not tell here. Plus there isn't anything wrong discussing it I just made the same "type" of comment and yet I do not support it. It's just a comment damn.

The only forums to "respect" in the audio realm, are IMO GearSlutz, KVR Audio, Vi-Control (haven't visited in quite a while), maybe Hydrogen Audio (actually, no... too "elitist") and what boils down from ProTools Expert, Sonic State, BPB, Rekkerd - well, these communities is already roam on both GS/KVR... so yeah. Only then I start to dissect according to genre (Dogs on Acid for DnB for example) or remix/video game soundtrack communities.

But you seem to(! - emphasis, read as: I'm making an assumption) like hanging around a certain forum that seems to have something to do with "this realm" and "procreation"... definitely some "experts" over there with some interesting sense of "sharing" and "letting developers make money first". ....

Or was it actually one of those "private sharing" Russian page?

Heck - I don't care.
Welcome to zombo.com !

Look, I'm very new to all of this. I just bought Logic Pro X, Mjuc, ProC2 and ProQ2. I do not know what was been said over the last 15 years because, well, like I said I just started. However, if it was been said over 15 years then something is wrong, don't you agree. It was just my perspective, I really like the concept... the concept.

Yet you act as if you know EVERYTHING and even tried to "correct me", because I apparently have no idea what I'm talking about. At least you didn't call me "kid", like the other person over on a developer sub-forum on STEAM yesterday - after giving feedback to a beta to a remake of a game I've been playing since 1995, and how to improve this remake.

Google Fu: Cubase Elements is not Cubase Pro - and Elements doesn't use the Elicenser USB key. Unless you like to access Hindi pages...

Did I said Elements? No. But if it makes right then I trow the "Pro" word on it so there's no doubts.

I read that over and over "yo, I have this version - it's secret - only shared 'internally' among special communities...". There is no Cubase 8 Pro crack!

And VSL is also crack*d. And no, it's not "hindi" pages.

Wow... I didn't know...
*pst - the VSL libraries roam the net since the existence of the samples! Even way before P2P sharing tools and Torrent*

Hey, look my comment was seen with the wrong perspective. I'm not here to argue or fight with you so will leave this thread now, you just seem a very angry person, take it easy and educate before making assumptions.

Right... *hahahahaha*
Thanks for the good laugh this evening.

I'm just curious about things and that's why I know what I know, I registered at kvr because I started to learn how to code and develop some Audio Unit I have in mind, then while reading the forum randomly found this thread. The ilok "concept" do interest me because I also have an idea to a product too but with other function in mind.

I think we have enough copy protection schemes at this point. Take your pick, from "lowest security", to "highest intrusion"

- watermark
- serial (with or without timebomb/random license check routines)
- USB keys
- Call and Response (with or without license manager)
- "Call Home" every 3 days (Call & Response, Subscription Model)
- Serial and/or C/R plus "phone home" without you knowing





Are we ready to go back on topic now?
Thanks!