Kilohearts - kHs One?

[wagtunes]

I only bought kHs One this week and, unlike I lot of idiots around here, I don't like to make pronouncements on things I know nothing about.

Because of the Easter sale? 19 euros is a more appropriate price than the regular 99.

Have they ever updated it? I get the impression it is basically abandonware.

Do you even know what abandonware is? Just because something hasn't been updated recently doesn't make it abandonware. Some of the biggest companies with numerous synths haven't updated some of them in 5 to 10 years. Hell, until recently, when was the last time Sylenth1 was updated. Under your definition we could have called THAT abandonware.

[fluffy_little_something]

I only bought kHs One this week and, unlike I lot of idiots around here, I don't like to make pronouncements on things I know nothing about.

Because of the Easter sale? 19 euros is a more appropriate price than the regular 99.

Have they ever updated it? I get the impression it is basically abandonware.

Do you even know what abandonware is? Just because something hasn't been updated recently doesn't make it abandonware. Some of the biggest companies with numerous synths haven't updated some of them in 5 to 10 years. Hell, until recently, when was the last time Sylenth1 was updated. Under your definition we could have called THAT abandonware.

Sorry, no interest today in endless and pointless discussions with choleric, unfriendly people...

[BONES]

He's talking about Fabfilter One
https://www.fabfilter.com/products/one- ... er-plug-in

A $59 single osc V/A with a simple Low-Pass filter, just one envelope and a single LFO, compared to a $19 three osc V/A with two four mode filters, three envelopes and three LFO? Perhaps the stupidest comparison ever, given that their overlap is so miniscule. FF One is such a joke I had literally forgotten it ever existed. And it was something ridiculous like $99 when it was released. Ha!

] don't understand why you can't get your head around DUNE 2. It can be just as fast and simple to program as KHS One if you just use a single layer.

That's fine when you start from scratch but when you find a sound you like and try to tweak it, it is the most frustrating thing on Earth. The number of presets that use voice 5 and 6 instead of whatever the front panel defaults to does my head in. It stopped me dead in my tracks when I started to play around with it so I went back to using Wasp, which sounds as good and is a lot easier to work with.

But DUNE 2 is an order of magnitude more flexible than KHS One.

Only because it's an order of magnitude more complicated.

You don't have to use DUNE 2's wavetables or arp/seq or multiple FX lanes or voice unison or osc unison or....etc.

But you still have to deal with all that stuff.

You can simply have a single saw wave through a filter and be done with it. D2 can be as simple as you want. I don't know why you can't understand that.

I understand that perfectly but I'd need to set it up and what would be my motivation to do that when I can just load up Wasp instead? That's ultimately my problem with DUNE - I can't see any point in bothering to get it organised to suit me.

You've been raving about Rich's filters for years so I know you're not going to tell me that suddenly they are inferior.

DUNE can sound exactly like Wasp, which is good for anyone who doesn't use Orion but superfluous for me. I use The Legend all the time, though, because it sounds great and is a breeze to work with.

I owned KHS One for a while, got some nice sounds out of it but got bored with it's limited architecture rather quickly and sold it on. On the other hand I've done hundreds of patches for DUNE 2 and have not come close to getting bored with it.

That, my friend, is the essential difference. I don't do patches, I write songs. I'd rather go to the dentist than make 200 presets so if kHs One can deliver me three or four sounds that I can use in songs, then it's a keeper. And mostly, that's what I get out of any synth - a few sounds to use in our songs. If I create a patch but don't use it in a song, then to me that's a waste of time and effort. That's even true of my Elektron Analog Keys. It cost me $1200 and I'll be completely happy with it if I can get half-a-dozen usable sounds from it for our next album and/or to use on stage. (So far, I'm not convinced that I will, though, but I'm having a lot of fun trying to find out. It's a very playable synth.)

Have they ever updated it? I get the impression it is basically abandonware.

So what? Moog Model D, Oberheim OB-Xa, TB303 and every other classic analogue synth you care to name has been abandonware for 40 or 50 years and it hasn't hurt their reputations. As long as it still works, what difference does it make? Yours is a stupid attitude.

[Russell Grand]

I only bought kHs One this week and, unlike I lot of idiots around here, I don't like to make pronouncements on things I know nothing about.

Because of the Easter sale? 19 euros is a more appropriate price than the regular 99.

Have they ever updated it? I get the impression it is basically abandonware.

Do you even know what abandonware is? Just because something hasn't been updated recently doesn't make it abandonware.

+1

[Teksonik]

But DUNE 2 is an order of magnitude more flexible than KHS One.

Only because it's an order of magnitude more complicated.

The two are inextricably linked. Complexity leads to flexibility. DUNE 2 can be complicated but it can also be just as simple as any synth.

You don't have to use DUNE 2's wavetables or arp/seq or multiple FX lanes or voice unison or osc unison or....etc.

But you still have to deal with all that stuff.

No you don't. Simply ignore the parts you don't want or need. I don't use every part of D2 for every patch. I simply ignore what I don't need. Don't need to use an MSEG ? Just ignore them.

As for DUNE 2 and Wasp, D2 has many filter models the Wasp doesn't. Since you already own D2 I can't see any reason not to take advantage of those new filters.

You can simply have a single saw wave through a filter and be done with it. D2 can be as simple as you want. I don't know why you can't understand that.

I understand that perfectly but I'd need to set it up and what would be my motivation to do that when I can just load up Wasp instead? That's ultimately my problem with DUNE - I can't see any point in bothering to get it organised to suit me.

You don't have to organize or set up anything. Simply hit Initialize and you're presented with a simple single layer VA patch. Just as simple as KHS One if you have the ability to ignore parts of D2 you don't want or need.

I owned KHS One for a while, got some nice sounds out of it but got bored with it's limited architecture rather quickly and sold it on. On the other hand I've done hundreds of patches for DUNE 2 and have not come close to getting bored with it.

That, my friend, is the essential difference. I don't do patches, I write songs. I'd rather go to the dentist than make 200 presets so if kHs One can deliver me three or four sounds that I can use in songs, then it's a keeper.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can just as easily get those three or four patches out of DUNE 2. It's workflow is just as fast as any simple VA.

Anyway I downloaded the KHS One 10 day trial today and went through the sounds. It's a nice nice little synth but why anyone would prefer it over DUNE 2 is a mystery to me. I had fun with KHS One while I owned it but she couldn't find a permanent home among the other VA's in my VST folder.

But as I said earlier....to each his own.

[Russell Grand]

Anyway I downloaded the KHS One 10 day trial today and went through the sounds. It's a nice nice little synth but why anyone would prefer it over DUNE 2 is a mystery to me. I had fun with KHS One while I owned it but she couldn't find a permanent home among the other VA's in my VST folder.

But as I said earlier....to each his own.

Overall I prefer the sound of ONE, esp as it's much easier to get it to sit right in the mix than DUNE 2. In my personal experience, Synapse Audio's synths have been notorious for not playing well with others. I also prefer the workflow of ONE as well as ONE's GUI. But to each his own indeed.

[digitalboytn]

Overall I prefer the sound of ONE, esp as it's much easier to get it to sit right in the mix than DUNE 2. In my personal experience, Synapse Audio's synths have been notorious for not playing well with others.

I would have to strongly disagree with your opinion here....

I find both DUNE 1 and DUNE 2 to be some of the best synths for layering that I have ever used...

DUNE 1 is my "go to" synth and one of the main reasons for this is that I can program sounds quickly that have a distinct quality of their own, but that also blend well with other elements of the mix...

This is one of the most important qualities that many people overlook when they are programming sounds in isolation...

The sounds have to sit right in the mix...

If I could only take two synths to the proverbial desert island,it would be DUNE 1 and 2...

I have to agree with Teksonic's take on the whole thing....

There is no comparison between DUNE 2 and KH One...

It's a little like comparing a bazooka and a water pistol

Anyway,there's a great freebie out there that is similar to KH One and it's well worth a spin...

It's even painted red,so you know that it's going to go fast...

Charlatan

That's another synth that blends well with others

[Russell Grand]

Overall I prefer the sound of ONE, esp as it's much easier to get it to sit right in the mix than DUNE 2. In my personal experience, Synapse Audio's synths have been notorious for not playing well with others.

I would have to strongly disagree with your opinion here....

I find both DUNE 1 and DUNE 2 to be some of the best synths for layering that I have ever used...

DUNE 1 is my "go to" synth and one of the main reasons for this is that I can program sounds quickly that have a distinct quality of their own, but that also blend well with other elements of the mix...

This is one of the most important qualities that many people overlook when they are programming sounds in isolation...

The sounds have to sit right in the mix...

If I could only take two synths to the proverbial desert island,it would be DUNE 1 and 2...

I have to agree with Teksonic's take on the whole thing....

There is no comparison between DUNE 2 and KH One...

It's a little like comparing a bazooka and a water pistol

Anyway,there's a great freebie out there that is similar to KH One and it's well worth a spin...

It's even painted red,so you know that it's going to go fast...

Charlatan

That's another synth that blends well with others

With Charlatan, I totally agree! I'm glad you and others have a better relationship with DUNE as I realize there is an incredible synth there despite it's stubborn refusal to get along with me. Luckily there are so many other great softsynths available to take it's place in my arsenal, including ONE, that I've never had to feel as though something was missing.

[Teksonik]

Overall I prefer the sound of ONE, esp as it's much easier to get it to sit right in the mix than DUNE 2. In my personal experience, Synapse Audio's synths have been notorious for not playing well with others. I also prefer the workflow of ONE as well as ONE's GUI. But to each his own indeed.

DUNE 2 can sit in the mix just as well as any other synth. I've had Synapse synths "playing well with others" for years. Layering DUNE 2 with Hive, Sylenth 1, luSH101, and many others yields amazing results.

The point I've been trying to get across is that DUNE 2 can be just as simple as KHS One. A single saw wave through a high quality filter should fit in any mix that requires VA type sounds.

I simply find One uninspiring which is why I sold it in the first place. If it was the only synth I had at my disposal then yes I could use it but with a folder full of other more capable synths it simply can not find it's niche....

[Mattt12345]

I give th RE Version a try. A little bit more joy to use but in the end it's not good to handle. I like the Sound of One but it's Gui is ,,pain'' against Dune, Spire, Hybrid 3. I hope ,where will be an update which brings a better workflow. I'm also listening to good presets if i'm wrong with my minds.

[BONES]

I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. How can a well crafted GUI that puts every single control into a single window, even the effects, possibly be more painful than one that hides three-quarters of it's features behind tabs and menus and pretend screens? It's an absurd notion.

This is one of the most important qualities that many people overlook when they are programming sounds in isolation...
The sounds have to sit right in the mix...

I think I know what you mean but I like to think I'm a good enough producer that I can make anything sit in a mix with anything else without ruining the essential quality of any individual part. Sometimes a part doesn't work but I don't normally find that a fault of the patch I'm using.

But then there are a lot of patches for a synth like DUNE that sound great, amazing even, but I could never find a use for them in a mix. That's true of the vast majority of these ridiculously complex synths - they seem to be made for sound designers, not for working musicians who just want to get things done.

If I could only take two synths to the proverbial desert island,it would be DUNE 1 and 2...

Really? Two synths that sound the same seems like a wasted opportunity to me. I don't know what mine would be but I know it wouldn't be two V/As. I'd probably want one V/A and a Phase Distortion synth like PlastiCZ or VirtualCZ. Actually, today it would be Kontakt Player with the Substance Bass Engine and Wasp but that will probably change once I get over my initial excitement for Substance (in a year or two). I thought I'd probably end up using DUNE instead of Wasp but so far it hasn't happened at all, even when I was dabbling with Bitwig. I just find DUNE too annoying to work with.

There is no comparison between DUNE 2 and KH One...

No-one was trying to make a comparison, they are indeed two very different beasts. That's why some of us prefer one to the other. I've never, for example, heard a really aggressive DUNE patch. It's not something it readily lends itself to, whereas it's pretty easy to do with One (and with Wasp).

It's a little like comparing a bazooka and a water pistol

Yes, but not in the way you mean.

[Teksonik]

I've never, for example, heard a really aggressive DUNE patch. It's not something it readily lends itself to, whereas it's pretty easy to do with One (and with Wasp).

Please post an "aggressive" patch that Wasp can do and DUNE can't. I'd love to hear it.

That's true of the vast majority of these ridiculously complex synths - they seem to be made for sound designers, not for working musicians who just want to get things done.

No they're made for music that's different than your music. Once again you're projecting your truth as universal truth. Just because something is too complex for you doesn't mean it's too complex for everyone.

I imagine there are plenty of "working musicians" who use DUNE 2 or any of the other more complex synths. Perhaps because they would rather spend time composing that loading up a dozen simple synths when one synth will do the job.

What's truly ridiculous is anyone being so baffled or intimidated by a few extra GUI elements that they would not use a great synth like DUNE 2 because it's "too complex" even though can be just as simple as Wasp or KHS One.

One could easily turn the tables and say....Simple things amuse simple minds....

[digitalboytn]

Just because something is too complex for you doesn't mean it's too complex for everyone.

One could easily turn the tables and say....Simple things amuse simple minds....

[BONES]

Please post an "aggressive" patch that Wasp can do and DUNE can't. I'd love to hear it.

There is a big difference between "can't" and "doesn't lend itself readily to". So the challenge would be to find an aggressive patch in the thousands of available presets. I'm sure there are some but I reckon they'll be few and far between. It's just not what Rich had in mind when he made it. (He'd probably got all that out of his system with Screamer.)

No they're made for music that's different than your music.

I think you'll find we use the same sounds as plenty of other genres, we're just better with distortion. And when we want something really complex, we'll use samplers instead of buggerising about with ubersynths.

I imagine there are plenty of "working musicians" who use DUNE 2 or any of the other more complex synths.

I'm sure there are and they probably either use presets or hire someone to program synths for them.

Perhaps because they would rather spend time composing that loading up a dozen simple synths when one synth will do the job.

I think you know my policy on layering. Even with Substance, I find myself turning off two of the layers and just using the one that makes the good part of the sound. It's likely I use far fewer instruments in a song than you do.

What's truly ridiculous is anyone being so baffled or intimidated by a few extra GUI elements that they would not use a great synth like DUNE 2 because it's "too complex" even though can be just as simple as Wasp or KHS One.

But when it is being simple it can't sound as good as those synths. e.g. I can't have three oscillators without diving into the Differential Unison Engine in DUNE (unless one of them is noise, of course), but I can in both Wasp and One. I can't add velocity modulation to Osc 1 Gain, for example, without navigating to the Mod Matrix in DUNE, but I can do it in One. Effects, a third envelope, even Osc 2 are all hidden away in DUNE, not in One.

Of course, what baffles me is that anyone thinks they need something as complicated as DUNE in order to make complex sounds. It's almost as if they are over-compensating for a lack of programming skill and/or technical understanding.

One could easily turn the tables and say....Simple things amuse simple minds....

I don't think they use softsynths at all.

BTW, you don't need to use emojis, I understand this is just a bit of banter and if others don't, that's not our problem.

[EnGee]

I tried the RE version. I almost bought it but I noticed a stepping in the filter when the resonance is not 0.

I had the vsti version before but I sold it not because it's a bad synth, but I had other VA synths that I liked more.

Anyway, it has three very good points IMO:
1. The GUI and design is great that makes it easy to use and fast to dial.
2. Outstanding support and very friendly developers.
3. Good overall sound for on your face leads, however, nothing that other synths can't do.

So, I think that the most can take advantage of it are those who want fast results and/or those who want to buy their first VA.

Regarding Dune 2, I agree with Bones in one point that the 'layers' make it difficult to tweak the presets. It should be only with one layer as default and a plus sign to add one layer at a time, so we see only layers that are used.

Anyway, there is no way that KHs One is superior in any sound than Dune 2. Dune 2 has also several different filters that make it far more versatile (not even talking about FM and Wavetable sections).