Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

[wagtunes]

It's an analogy, not meant for you to nitpick about the details. The point was being able to design patches and buying patches are not mutually exclusive things. I have made banks for dozens of plugins, and I still buy sounds from people whose work I respect.

Well yeah, of course. I have every library made for Synthmaster. I think they're great. But okay, I'm still having trouble (with my pea brain) understanding what that has to do with people either understanding or not understanding Bazille. Are you saying it doesn't matter whether they understand the synth or not? In either case, people will still buy presets?

No I'm saying it doesn't matter if they understand it to the nth degree, doesn't (necessarily) stop them wanting to hear what others can do with the same plugin or thinking they can't learn something from others. Obviously a person who can't design sounds at all will only be reliant on other's work but my point was aimed at the assumption that to be able to design sounds means you don't need to buy them.

Ah, okay. I understand now. I actually agree with that. In fact, when I'm more interested in getting a song done than making a sound for it, many times I will just turn to something that somebody else did that's close enough if for no other reason than to save time. I guess that's when I separate the sound designer from the composer. And truth be told, it happens more often than you'd think. I don't want to spend all day designing sounds for a song if nothing I currently have in my own collection is what I feel is right for the song. So I get it.

[aMUSEd]

Ah you see for me the two are organically linked because I don't 'design sounds' as a thing in itself but rather as an integral part of my musical explorations (ie I see it as exploring a potential sonic landscape and saving landmarks along the way). So the 'design' and composition go hand in hand (but I do see things in a very Berio way there).

[layzer]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

[Taurus]

I would not install Bazille even it was freeware. I completely dislike this synth.

[justin3am]

I think there is a misconception that people who don't like the synth, just don't understand it. I don't think that's right. I think there are plenty who do understand it but just don't like the approach, the sound or some other aspect... that's totally okay.

Implying that someone who doesn't like Bazille just doesn't have the sound design skillz to grok it is kinda elitist and leads to those who don't like it, responding in a defensive manner.

I'm just glad that Bazille has been a successful product for u-he (and that Wag's Bazille sound set has been successful for him ), because it means that wacky science experiment synths are still viable for Urs to work on. I mean, I'd still use Bazille if it never got another update but I'm glad there are others out there who also enjoy using this type of synth.

[.jon]

Not sure if I'd classify it as wacky scientist synth at all. It's a PD/PM semimodular that can be used also as a vanilla subtractive synth. The architecture is just so powerful that it allows the user to play wacky scientist should she or he wish so.

Bazille is a masterpiece of a synth, soft or hard. I hope U-he rediscover their ambitions after the recent ho-hum emulation craze.

[wagtunes]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

As An owner of both, I can absolutely say unequivocally that there are things I can do with Bazille that I can't even begin to do in Sonigen Modular. You would not know that not owning the synth. Now, if you want to go just by that demo alone, fine. But that demo, without even listening to it, can't possibly tell the whole story of what Bazille can do. The built in sequencer (if that's what you can call it) alone can produce things that Sonigen just throws its arms up in the air at and says, "Okay, I give up."

My demo doesn't even tell a fraction of the story of what Bazille can do.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim/bazille-demo

[exmatproton]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

As An owner of both, I can absolutely say unequivocally that there are things I can do with Bazille that I can't even begin to do in Sonigen Modular. You would not know that not owning the synth. Now, if you want to go just by that demo alone, fine. But that demo, without even listening to it, can't possibly tell the whole story of what Bazille can do. The built in sequencer (if that's what you can call it) alone can produce things that Sonigen just throws its arms up in the air at and says, "Okay, I give up."

My demo doesn't even tell a fraction of the story of what Bazille can do.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim/bazille-demo

Hehehe...i wanted to point the same thing. Glad you wrote this. Sonigen modular is fun, nice and pretty good. But, to me at least, not in the same league.

[.jon]

Sonigen is less modular than many "fixed-architecture" synths.

[Urs]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

How can you even begin to compare the two examples you posted?

[ghettosynth]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

The difference in filter/osc character is apparent in the first few seconds of each video. Further along in the video you can distinctly hear the characteristic distortion of a simpler filter model in Sonigen.


I think that there is some correlation between relative resale value and demand, even while controlling for other factors. That is, if Diva sells for a larger percentage of retail than Bazille, on average, then that gives at least some evidence that there is more interest fro Diva than Bazille. Of course that, and any related thesis, would require more evidence to confirm, but the priors are fairly strong. At any rate, assuming that there is anything to the OP's thesis, which Urs correctly identifies as being somewhat flawed in the first place, then...

I think that some people are confused by Bazille's oscillators and complex modular routing, especially some of the default routings.

I'm sure that there are also some people that don't like the approach. I really like the synth, but, I would like it more if it had complex envelopes, which, IMO, really compliment FM synthesis. There are some other factors as well, but, without going into detail, they are the reason that I turn to Reaktor instead.

Also, like any FM synth, it's very easy to go from "cool sound" to "harsh noise" and I think that this contributes to its reputation for being a dark synth. So, especially if you aren't into sound design, you might just think that the "dark sound" isn't for you.

Like anything that involves humans, it's not just one thing. It's going to be a fairly complex model of different causes relating to different goals.

That said, I'm not surprised that wags sells more patches for Bazille and Softube Modular. People probably buy those synths for their sound and buy presets to get the particular sounds that they want that the aren't able to program themselves. A different cause might be that since those synths are complex they are capable of a wider variety of sounds and so people are more inspired to buy patches for them because they exemplify wider variety.

[wagtunes]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

How can you even begin to compare the two examples you posted?

Urs, Layzer is the forum's "Free can do anything paid can do" advocate. You kind of just have to take what he says with a grain of salt and let it roll off your back.

You'll live longer.

[wagtunes]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

The difference in filter/osc character is apparent in the first few seconds of each video. Further along in the video you can distinctly hear the characteristic distortion of a simpler filter model in Sonigen.


I think that there is some correlation between relative resale value and demand, even while controlling for other factors. Of course that would require more evidence to confirm, but the priors are fairly strong. At any rate, assuming that there is anything to the thesis, which Urs correctly identifies as being somewhat flawed in the first place.

I think that some people are confused by Bazille's oscillators and complex modular routing, especially some of the default routings.

I'm sure that there are also some people that don't like the approach. I really like the synth, but, I would like it more if it had complex envelopes, which, IMO, really compliment FM synthesis. There are some other factors as well, but, without going into detail, they are the reason that I turn to Reaktor instead.

Also, like any FM synth, it's very easy to go from "cool sound" to "harsh noise" and I think that this contributes to its reputation for being a dark synth. So, especially if you aren't into sound design, you might just think that the "dark sound" isn't for you.

Like anything that involves humans, it's not just one thing. It's going to be a fairly complex model of different causes relating to different goals.

That said, I'm not surprised that wags sells more patches for Bazille and Softube Modular. People probably buy those synths for their sound and buy presets to get the particular sounds that they want that the aren't able to program themselves. A different cause might be that since those synths are complex they are capable of a wider variety of sounds and so people are more inspired to buy patches for them because they exemplify wider variety.

I probably couldn't have said this better. Yes, I can do more with these synths than "normal" synths so yes, the sound pallet is more spread out.

[Nielzie]

I completely love Bazille and think it's a work of genius, right up there with the Zebra. I wish it wouldn't be so intensive on my poor little old laptop cpu though, but that I can't really blame on her.

[ghettosynth]

i dont hear anything in this demo that cant be done with some freeware modolar VA like sonigen and a shitload of reverb and delay but with better sounding reverb that doesnt sound so boxy and narrow with less cpu usage.

How can you even begin to compare the two examples you posted?

Urs, Layzer is the forum's "Free can do anything paid can do" advocate. You kind of just have to take what he says with a grain of salt and let it roll off your back.

You'll live longer.

Well, that might be a bit unkind, LOL! But, there is certainly a wide range of experience here on KVR and not everyone is sensitive to the differences that drive higher quality emulations.