One Synth Challenge #98: Any One Synth (Photonic Wins!)

[574X]

Edit: yeah, you're right it's basically "Instead of having just three or four waveforms, a wavetable oscillator can have many more — say, 64." (from bjporter's link below)

Also:"Wavetable synthesis is perhaps the oldest technique for creating sounds with computers. It involves the storage of a single period of a periodic waveform in a circular buffer. By varying the ``speed'' with which a read pointer is advanced through the buffer, one can achieve output waveforms of different frequencies. This technique is distinct from simple PCM sample playback in that it always implies looping over the buffer (rather than a ``read once'' behavior).
Wavetables typically consist of between 128 - 2048 table values (powers of two are common)." https://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/307/w ... ables.html

You can see Massive's popular "carbon" wavetables (wavetable set...?) by importing it into serum
https://trisamples.com/ni-massive-wavet ... or-serum/- or going here http://quadrophone.com/synthesis/ni-mas ... le-images/

More information about wavetable synthesis is here:
http://en.wikiaudio.org/Wavetable_synthesis
http://en.audiofanzine.com/sound-synthe ... ables.html

more single cycle waveforms for wavetables:
http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/

[bjporter]

This technical information seems beyond the scope of what we're here for, but apparently "wavetable" is a term that has been loosely used to describe many things, which is what has created the confusion when it comes back to wavetable synthesis.

http://en.wikiaudio.org/Wavetable_synthesis

From my understanding of Wolfgang Palm , (inventor of wavetable synthesis) he wanted to go beyond traditional synth oscillators (at the time it was pretty much triangle, sin, square, etc), and use complicated single cycle waveforms (very tiny samples generated by a code, analog instrument, or real instruments, etc) to create new and amazing sounds.

Good info here: http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advic ... -synthesis

The definition of the One synth challenge wavetable synth should be something like what Wolfgang Palm used I think. Its just like a VA, but uses a wavetable oscillator. Does that sound right 574X?

Edit: updated some info

[574X]

Great read! Very insightful.

I haven't heard of "SOS contributor Steve Howell" but the way he uses terminology again confuses me and doesn't seem to align with the resources I've posted.

"Each oscillator in the PPG, however, didn't just have one wavetable — there were 32 wavetables, each with 64 waveforms! Many were simple harmonic progressions as described above; others were rudimentary attempts at multisampling, whilst others attempted to emulate oscillator sync sweeps and PWM (pulse-width modulation) effects. Because the wavetable sweeping was so audibly stepped, the latter two weren't entirely convincing emulations, though they had a character all their own nonetheless."

I'll mention that we've solved many of those problems thanks to brilliant mathematicians , so digital wavetable synthesis morphing algorithms are very seamless now.

[EnGee]

Guys, please define which synthesis are permitted, so we start make our noises

What I know, these synthesis are permitted: VA, FM, PD and additive. Right? No granular or audio scanning (like in Padshop and NI Scanner XT). And no resynthesis like in Harmor.

I'm not sure what the final word about Wavetable based synths?

Thank you

[] Peter:H []

"Wavetable" is a historically loose term (because of marketing), but it does seem to have a specific meaning in wavetable synthesis - a sample short enough to be read as an oscillator waveform shape.

It appears that a wavetable set is where you morph between a group of wavetables which are either made from a short sample or by making 2 or more waveforms and generating a sequence between them.

You can see Massive's popular "carbon" wavetable set by importing it into serum
https://trisamples.com/ni-massive-wavet ... or-serum/- or going here http://quadrophone.com/synthesis/ni-mas ... le-images/

If you are morphing between all the waveforms in a sample, to play the sample then IMO that is both sampling and wavetable synthesis. Save yourself the trouble and use a sampler.

More information about wavetable synthesis is here:
http://en.wikiaudio.org/Wavetable_synthesis
http://en.audiofanzine.com/sound-synthe ... ables.html

more single cycle waveforms for wavetables:
http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/

I Just read the definition from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavetable_synthesis and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table-lookup_synthesis.
A Table (not in terms of the thing you put a plate on an have breakfast, but more like a database table or array in programming) has 1...n entries of (single cycle) Waves. This is how Blofeld, Serum, Icarus and Massive work and that's the way AudioTerm builds Tables of Waves...I mean there's even a Massive Wavetable Extraction Utility which gives you the Tables that you can later on load into other Wavetable Synths (search for "ExtractMassiveWavetables.exe"). Go and open such a table in a Wav Editor of your choice and take a look...And Icarus exactly does some drum kits or gating effects by cleverly designing and controling the playback of wavetables. I provide 2 example: A classic massive wavetable called "Groan II"

Massive Groan II.png

And following the same principle of a table of single cycles it's an example of a Tone2 Icarus Drumset...

Icarus Drumkit Wavetable.jpg

okay, I don't want to do lectures here anybody can be happy with his thinking on wavetables. If any form of wavetable synthesis is fine and that's my question, I bet I can build me my drumkit this Icarus way then...

[574X]

Hay stop replying so fast! Wait for my brain to catch up

[] Peter:H []

deleted

[574X]

Sure guys use an exact sound of a drum as your "synthesized drum" in a synthesis competition. I won't judge. It's technically "wavetable synthesis."

I suggest you mention that you didn't do that, if you choose to use a modern wavetable synth for this competition. I happen to think it's cooler to use the techniques I described - and I literally play several instruments and am 5 feet from my drum kit. Want me to get you some wavetables

[bjporter]

Some good points there Peter. In your opinion, what restrictions on wavetables would be in the spirit of OSC?

[doctorbob]

I would dearly love to use my Roland Super Quartet VSTi fror a jazz track, but it probably falls foul of the wave/samples rule! Or better still, a piano piece using my Ivory II Grands - but hey, probably Synth1 ... sigh ...

With both those VSTi's you can't load your own samples etc - you just use what you're given - but then, those with loads of dosh would use their HUGE Kontakt libraries of super duper sampled instruments. So, in the grand scheme of things, back to pretty much basics.

I do worry about judging 100+ tracks though - we've had some marathons, but I bet this will find many participants old and new crawling out from beneath their winter rocks!

dB

[Rcl]

Funny I almost went with my Waldorf PPG 2v and used the 8 channel muti timbral feature an kept it to one instance. I got quite frustrated with my inability to create any sort of snare and the fact that the preset manager is by far the worst ever. Trying to create multiple patches at the same time in the multi timbral set up seems to be impossible unless you save to a bank before changing channels which brings up the dreaded preset issues. I know, I know I could simply use multiple instances and forego all of this. The PPG 2v is one of my favorites. I have decided instead to go with Charlatan.

[] Peter:H []

Some good points there Peter. In your opinion, what restrictions on wavetables would be in the spirit of OSC?

I really cannot say, sorry...I mean the problem is that the All Synth and All Fx opens the door wide and now we try to close it again, but only for "sampling" and "things that are like sampling". And I bet it would be hard to control that either. And after all "controling" is the wrong approach to go into a OSC. Thinking about a "rule" but cannot come up with one that's easy understandable and does not sound bureaucratic.
How about "Please feel free to use Wavetable Synths. But in the spirit of One Synth Challenge please refrain from advanced features of some Synths that make their wavetable engines act like Samplers. As there's no real way to control it, it's up to you to go into the challenge like a real no-samples-here sportsman"

[] Peter:H []

By the way. Still time to switch to Stigma
https://www.kvraudio.com/news/full-buck ... dows-36804
Just kidding

[ontrackp]

I agree with DB - judging 100+ tracks is going to be a beast.

Re: samples and wavetables. I think the issue is really more about the definition of a sampler or rompler as used here, than wavetables. If the device is designed to realistically mimic the sound of real instruments using recordings of the instruments, it's a sampler and not allowed. Synths that use wavetables like Serum, Zebra and many others I don't know, also use wavetables made up of variations on the basic waveforms. If you have a wavetable that transitions from a sine to a square, that's allowed. If it happened to morph from a sample taken from a violin to a sample taken from a tuba, I think that's also fair as it's not an emulation of either instrument. If the synth is simply playing back long looped multi-cycle samples of real instruments to create a playable recording of that instrument, don't use it.

For instance, Synthmaster has a big collection of waveforms from analog synths available -- for all practical purposes loading one of them into an oscillator is no different than using any other synth waveform. You just have more choices of variations on waveforms, it's not as if you're actually playing a Prophet V, or OBXa. I don't see that as being very different from using a synth that lets you take a standard wave and manipulate it to change it's sound.

With all due respect, I feel like some of this is overthinking. I don't see a problem with using a Wavestation, M1, or other romplers as long as you're doing creative sound design, not just playing back the built in saxophone, drums or strings patch.

[EnGee]

Some good points there Peter. In your opinion, what restrictions on wavetables would be in the spirit of OSC?

"Please feel free to use Wavetable Synths. But in the spirit of One Synth Challenge please refrain from advanced features of some Synths that make their wavetable engines act like Samplers. As there's no real way to control it, it's up to you to go into the challenge like a real no-samples-here sportsman"

I agree with Peter:H Even if someone wants to use a synth that has tons of samples, but choose the VA engine only, me think!

Then in the end, the organisers have the right to see the projects of the winners to be sure that no rule has been broken, just a suggestion of course.