The VSTi That I Would Pay $1,000 For

[DSmolken]

Okay, here it is. Because of my frustrations with Vocaloid (all the criticisms) this is the VST that I would pay $1,000 for if somebody would make it.

Here's how it works.

You sing into a mic. The audio then goes through the VST and converts YOUR voice into any singer's voice you want it to sound like and perfectly on key. So, you could sound like Sinatra, Bon Jovi, Meatloaf, Cher, anybody you can think of.

Take a look at what Voctro Labs are up to these days. They also published some demos of some new software last year, which pretty much did just what you described: used AI to make a model of a voice from a small amount of recordings (maybe 40 minutes of speech data IIRC, which, well, I've made a free virtual singer, being able to record everything you need in 40 minutes is AWESOMELY efficient), then sang songs using that model and using vocals sung by another person as a controller. I think.

This is their current product: https://www.voiceful.io/

[BezO]

Cool for song writers. Imagine presenting a song to Ms. Pop Star with her already singing on it.

[Dasheesh]

Cool for song writers. Imagine presenting a song to Ms. Pop Star with her already singing on it.

Boom. There you go. That’s thinking smart and using technology for you.

[Dasheesh]

I go through life with blood in my heart, but that's just me.

This site really needs a like button.

[BBFG#]

Quit trying to sound like everyone else.

While it may flatter the people you're trying to imitate, it doesn't make you any more than a copy of a copy of a copy.

I live in a small town where something like 70% of its population are musicians, albeit half of those fall into the group of drummers and guitarists that often negate that claim. Even though all but the lower 10% have enough skill, I can't really say that many have talent. And even more so, those of us trying to do play out of and beyond our imagination to 'push the envelope' rather than be a box, is frustrating in its own way. Even our local "American Idol" (I think he finished sixth?) only stops hurting my ears when he's using autotune. And for me, it all gets far too boring, far too quick. Remember the instruments only get you part way there. The rest, we have to work at, if we are ever to sound like ourselves and not everyone else... otherwise, what's the point?

Ha. Take it from old guy that’s Learned things too late. You can not go through life with hate in your heart. It will eat you alive. We are learning that we are not so special... not at all. Nothing says we are. People a lot more special then us have come and gone with nothing to show for it in much worse ways. Got to learn how to smile and have fun with music again. It’s supposed to be fun and no matter how good you think you get at something, there will always be someone better standing behind you. Just some old guy wisdom... take it or leave it (you’ll probably leave it), but I’d hate to see you go through life with hate in your heart. Let it go.

It's not hatred, or worse than hatred, indifference. Its just boring when you find others limiting the fun by their lack of imagination. Skill is great, and as you said, there is always someone better. Talent is rare, and often shows in just as rare moments. But a lack of imagination or worse, a player with the bravado to play but not the courage to find synergy is tiring. No hate here, and with boredom, the vigilance is to not become indifferent. I think I have more respect with bands based on rage than those based on imitating others. At least they show passion.

[Armagibbon]

I hate the idea. Learn to sing yourself or simply accept you are not a (good) singer
Since singers and their vocals are still in the center of most music, I want singing to remain a skill that can't be automated and emulated with machines.

Gotta wonder if pianists felt the same way bout sequencers and piano samples.

[Dasheesh]

I hate the idea. Learn to sing yourself or simply accept you are not a (good) singer
Since singers and their vocals are still in the center of most music, I want singing to remain a skill that can't be automated and emulated with machines.

Gotta wonder if pianists felt the same way bout sequencers and piano samples.

For now, anybody who cares can tell the difference between a seq. And a player. Those that don’t care we’re never going to care anyway.

[Dasheesh]

In fact... a little more about that. There are interviews floating around with the old BBC crew that talked about how synthesizers were a terrible invention and it was going to kill music. Turns out music just evolved, and now seq. Work is considered an art and music. The world keeps turning. They all knew it couldn’t be stopped.

[yellowmix]

it would be an interesting social experiment where everyone is equal.

LMAO... look around... no one is equal in this world and never will be. even the level of stupidity varies

Huh? Such a product would make everyone equal in terms of creating a recording of singing. Well, if it's $1000 it's out of the reach of a lot of people.

But sure, if I need to get more specific, yes, there are people that would still make better works than others given the same tool. So consider what would happen.

There's still barriers because you need 1. lyrics and 2. music production to go with it. But if you have money you could simply hire others to provide them, or maybe you have the talent yourself. You can upload it to distrokid, Spotify, Beatport, Bandcamp, YouTube, whatever. If you're a label you've got those people plus marketing and distribution channels, so easy peasy.

As I touched on earlier, what is the public's initial reaction to inauthentic singing that is otherwise indistinguishable from an excellent, real, famous singer? And assuming no one is pulling a Milli Vanilli. It would likely be hostile in many cases. But people wouldn't care in a lot of other ones, like some summer EDM banger. And people would be curious. Over time, it would be normalized (just as all previous music technology has), and the technology drops in price, becomes more improved (e.g., miniaturized and implantable in humans), making it even more widely available and indistinguishable.

Human singers are now competing with AI. Not only that, but living human singers are competing with AI that is resurrecting every great singer in the history of humankind. And not only that, but the AI can produce results 24/7 without breaks or rest, without controversy or acts of god, is fully disposable and reinventable.

Human singers also face the accusation/doubt that they use the technology in their recordings and performances. And there's no way to prove it for every single recording and performance. Well, there is, but people just won't care to verify it every time.

Regardless, the completely asymmetric costs of producing and promoting a single human singer song versus thousands of AI produced songs will further make the commercial human singer a rarity.

Contrast with computer chess. As computers have decisively won, interest in human-computer matchups dropped. Human players use chess computers to help them train, since humans have simply dropped out of competition with computers.

Music, however, is subjective, but AI will get to a point where it can methodically create pop music better than we can. A coordinated AI would analyse the charts and trends over years and react accordingly. And it's not just pop; weak AI will be able to make any music humans do, strong AI will innovate just like humans, and super-intelligent AI will do all of that faster than we can.

There are going to be lawsuits. The core question is if there are legal rights to the way a person sounds. This can be and will be broken down to the formants produced by physiology, pronunciation, intonation, phrasing, etc.. Some aspects might be protected by law! Especially when it's a dead singer's estate bringing the lawsuit (I think the legal argument would be the AI has to train on possibly copyrighted recordings and is thus a derivative work). There won't necessarily be international agreement on this, either.

But that's the only real saving grace. We'll see it in other artistic endeavours. AI will be writing novels, poetry, philosophy, making movies, doing your taxes, etc.. And as we've seen with industrial automation, capitalism wins.

[wagtunes]

I wouldn't pay $1000 for any VST, no matter what it does... even the biggest flagship/whatever plugin doesn't make other plugins worth $1000 obsolete. They're rather all additions to one another, so, selling something for $1000 which is merely an addition to other stuff seems a pretty ridiculous business move. I understand the requirements mentioned in the OP, but, $1000? Seriously? Rather seems like the usual exaggeration to emphasize the point.

Actually, not an exaggeration at all. The biggest complaint I get about my songs is the vocals. Think about all the money I'd save hiring singers if I had a VSTi that did human vocals that you couldn't tell from the real thing.

And, to make my request even better, for those who say "quit trying to sound like everybody else" the VSTi would have the ability to actually create your own voice. A physical modeling feature with so many controls that you could even program it to sound like yourself except the quality of the vocal would be outstanding, like a professional singer.

If I had something like that, 90% of the negative comments I get on my music would be gone.

So yeah, something like that would easily be worth $1,000 to me when a typical hardware synth workstation can easily run you 2 grand.

I could make near professional demos that I could submit to A&R people and have at least a snow ball's chance of getting something out of it. With Vocaloid, I have no chance. Nobody takes it seriously and I can't sing. And like I said, the money I'd save hiring vocalists, it would pay for itself, especially with as much music as I've written.

Think about it. In just the last couple of years, I've written over 250 songs with vocals. If I hired a singer for every single one of them, even if they only charged me $10 for the job (which you know there's no way in hell that's happening) it would have cost me $2,500 for all those songs. And that's not counting how much time I'd have to spend with these people teaching them the song and then getting them to do it just right.

$1,000 for something like this, for ME, would be a steal.

[murnau]

So, you could sound like Sinatra

[Teksonik]

But if you sold some of those 250 songs wouldn't you then be able to afford to hire a singer which would then allow you to sell more songs and so on ?

Certainly there must be a singer near by you that has no studio but needs some songs to sing along to ? Could be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

We both paid well over $1000 for some of our hardware back in the day so it's not that crazy of an amount of money to some of us.

Would I pay that much now for a hardware unit or plugin that would allow me to sing like a Pro ? Probably not a this point in my life but there was a time I would have done so with no hesitation. Would have been better money spent than on a DX7 which I wouldn't give a $100 for now ( or maybe I would then turn around a sell it for a profit).

[jacqueslacouth]

if I had a VSTi that did human vocals that you couldn't tell from the real thing.

And so end the need for anybody to ever bother learning to sing

Think about it. In just the last couple of years, I've written over 250 songs with vocals. If I hired a singer for every single one of them, even if they only charged me $10 for the job (which you know there's no way in hell that's happening) it would have cost me $2,500 for all those songs. And that's not counting how much time I'd have to spend with these people teaching them the song and then getting them to do it just right.

Why do you need to hire a singer at all? Why not collaborate with a singer looking for a songwriter to work with. I was always a shit singer. That is why I joined bands who had somebody who could sing or worked with other people who could sing. It's not that hard to do really, just a note in the window of your local music store....If you post it, they will come (you can audition quite a few in a single day)...who knows, it could be the start of a beautiful friendship. Actually, that was just how it was done back in the day before we all became reclusive studio producers.

[Teksonik]

Anyway I think the human voice is the hardest instrument to master. You could spend thousands on lessons and years practicing and still not sound good. I think it's just down to how our bodies are built....the size and shape of our larynx etc. Some got it, some don't. I don't and no amount of effort can over ride that fact.

[Teksonik]

Why do you need to hire a singer at all? Why not collaborate with a singer looking for a songwriter to work with. I was always a shit singer. That is why I joined bands who had somebody who could sing or worked with other people who could sing. It's not that hard to do really, just a note in the window of your local music store....If you post it, they will come (you can audition quite a few in a single day)...who knows, it could be the start of a beautiful friendship. Actually, that was just how it was done back in the day before we all became reclusive studio producers.

Well said.

This idea that we have to do everything ourselves or we're a failure or cheating has gotten out of hand. Few people have the raw talent and acquired skills to go from blank canvas to finished chart topping master with no help at all.