Making music vs Performing It

[jancivil]

Since we're letting it all hang out now, I'll be frank.

Anti-virtuous is clearly an aspect of anti-intellectualism.

While I agree with this statement, there is also something to be said for taste and self-restraint. Playing as many notes as possible, as fast as possible, for as long as possible, might be satisfying for the virtuoso performer, but not necessarily so for the audience. Of course tastes vary, so I’m not speaking in absolutes. I tend not to enjoy that sort of thing, personally. But I’m not in favor of what I perceive to be the dumbing down of culture and society as a whole.

About right. There's virtuosity to and end - i.e. to play great music, and then there's wanking;

Yngwie

Can't stand Malmsteem, never could. Albeit there are guitarists I very much respect who disagree.

Yeah, there is empty 'virtuosity' all over the place, but to me that's so QED via Jason Collier already.
Who is another asshat giving good practices a bad name.

[jancivil]

Believe it or not, I keep my 'mouth' shut like 98.7% of the time. But I've now seen 'I hate guitar solos' one or three too many times. Hating virtuosity is not a virtue. *I hate when people do things fantastically*.

I'm reminded of the punk rock 'ethos' inflicted on us by journos. Rock music as though it's a sacred trust to stick to the rudimentary and simplistic became a reactionary force via people writing on music that have literally not the first clue (Lester Bangs, anyone). So having more ability than one is comfortable with in one's fear of music was something to tear down and ridicule.

[vurt]

i enjoy some "perfection" type playing, eg an orchestra, there you have all top class players.
but i also love sloppy, with soul, look at Hendrix, yeah he could play, probably could be considered a virtuoso by many, but he had some rough edges, but they are what made his sound

[donkey tugger]

I love a good guitar solo. The key word being 'good'......it's got to add something to the music, or there's no point; widdle for widdle's sake doesn't do it for me. As an example, Steve Vai's solo at the end of this is utterly fantastic, and it's really fits the song with the apocalyptic pyrotechnics against Ginger Baker bashing seven shades of shite out of the drums.

[Hink]

Since we're letting it all hang out now, I'll be frank.

Anti-virtuous is clearly an aspect of anti-intellectualism.

While I agree with this statement, there is also something to be said for taste and self-restraint. Playing as many notes as possible, as fast as possible, for as long as possible, might be satisfying for the virtuoso performer, but not necessarily so for the audience. Of course tastes vary, so I’m not speaking in absolutes. I tend not to enjoy that sort of thing, personally. But I’m not in favor of what I perceive to be the dumbing down of culture and society as a whole.

About right. There's virtuosity to and end - i.e. to play great music, and then there's wanking;

Yngwie

Can't stand Malmsteem, never could. Albeit there are guitarists I very much respect who disagree.

Yeah, there is empty 'virtuosity' all over the place, but to me that's so QED via Jason Collier already.
Who is another asshat giving good practices a bad name.

I had a rule my friends didn't always agree with, if I paid for a ticket to a show I was seeing the entire show no matter who opened. (I also saw a lot of shows back in the day). As a result I saw him three times in three different bands and all three were the same show and really felt like the same songs with different names and different lyrics. It cant be said in my opinion he didn't have talent but I always saw him putting the Yngiwe image first along with the "show" and growth as a guitarist second. Nothing wrong with that, he found his niche and ran with it, but to be honest I'm not sure if he had of missed one catch it wouldn't have been an improvement

[jancivil]

Well, I don't go around typically to say


but Malmsteen doesn't move me

[jancivil]

As an example, Steve Vai's solo at the end of this [PiL] is utterly fantastic,

Yeah, he's really doing something there.

[Hink]

Well, I don't go around typically to say


but Malmsteen doesn't move me

Denise use to quote that all the time

[melomood]

Believe it or not, I keep my 'mouth' shut like 98.7% of the time. But I've now seen 'I hate guitar solos' one or three too many times. Hating virtuosity is not a virtue. *I hate when people do things fantastically*.

I'm reminded of the punk rock 'ethos' inflicted on us by journos. Rock music as though it's a sacred trust to stick to the rudimentary and simplistic became a reactionary force via people writing on music that have literally not the first clue (Lester Bangs, anyone). So having more ability than one is comfortable with in one's fear of music was something to tear down and ridicule.

People who hate guitar solos never listened to this

[herodotus]

If we are talking about virtuoso guitarists, I will have to mention this:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x53nusk

[melomood]

Well of course
I had a little brain orgasm when Sylvian's 'Gone To Earth' came out with Fripp AND Nelson both on it

[herodotus]

Well of course
I had a little brain orgasm when Sylvian's 'Gone To Earth' came out with Fripp AND Nelson both on it

Yeah, Fripp got around, didn't he?

I love his work on 'Heroes' and the whole 'Scary Monsters' album. Like an electric Paganini playing Bartok.

[sjm]

Have much the same problem as others in this thread mention. I know enough musicians to put together multiple bands. I don't however have a full complement of musicians who are capable enough, reliable, and interested in playing what I want to play.

I get asked every now and then when my next gig is/why I don't do gigs, and the answer basically always boils down to "no band". So I've started toying with the idea of doing the Carter USM thing and doing a gig with me on guitar and vocals and the computer playing along. Maybe using foot pedals and performance mode for the ability to improvise a bit rather than be stuck with a rigid structure.

But somehow I still can't imagine it's the same as going to see a band.

[jancivil]

That was rather musical, Be Bop Deluxe.
they came around at exactly the time I got into school and away from mainstream rock

For me, Adrian Belew brought something to Crimson that was sorely needed, well a couple of things, the drastically different approach to guitar and the melodic thing with his vocal prowess, even the pop sensibilities.

Here's infiltration of pop by virtuosos:



Me, I don't know why regular people would reject the 5/8 that permeates this track, with the gorgeous (accessible) vocal melody.
I think the Powers That Be assume everything has to be kept dumbed down; and that kind of mentality has enforced the notion... well, most of my life, leaving my early years aside.

[jancivil]

I get asked every now and then when my next gig is/why I don't do gigs, and the answer basically always boils down to "no band". So I've started toying with the idea of doing the Carter USM thing and doing a gig with me on guitar and vocals and the computer playing along. Maybe using foot pedals and performance mode for the ability to improvise a bit rather than be stuck with a rigid structure.

But somehow I still can't imagine it's the same as going to see a band.

I thought along these lines before I got sick. I didn't even get close to a conception I would actually go see myself so I didn't expend much energy on it. I was writing these rather grand things in the DAW... there was a tiny scene here for that kind of thing in a cafe but I just wasn't feeling it.

Before I ran into a car pulling out of a driveway at high speed, I was pretty fortunate. I met a pianist-composer (with a minimoog and his band with a Yamaha GS2) at school and events had it so I lived with his band for a time. And he brought it up to me the other day as 'maybe the best of times', as we really got to EXPLORE in free improv/composing in real time.

So me being me, I would hijack the musicians in the band and them what would gravitate towards it and do shows. It had to be shows to get people to act and they would once I had a concept and I, we, came up with some doozies. My bass player was always this one guy, Whitman (who much, much later joined Satriani (a fan of "Mermen" which I'm kind of not)) who would nail everything right away. Ironic C&W before it was a thing; our country band had a drummer who played standing up; his wife Jill Olsen came out with Red Meat a little later.
And we had an authentic redneck pedal steel player who was strung out on Chinese H.

Me without that kind of already built scene, I wouldn't have done anything.