Kontakt 6.7.0 is here, adding native M1 support

[EvilDragon]

Does that mean Kontakt isn't able to automatically migrate from VST2 to VST3 if the former isn't present? Some plugins allow for this.

Kontakt does migrate if the host supports VST2>VST3 migration.

[nanostream]

Some people like to maintain working source files. I know I do.

I can see that. But people are talking about writing migration scripts, analyzing the project file format and whatnot. Seems like a huge waste of time to me, considering there are far easier solutions readily available.

Apart from the fact that it’s probably not the best idea to use Macs when long term compability is really that important to you (not talking about you necessarily).

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Does that mean Kontakt isn't able to automatically migrate from VST2 to VST3 if the former isn't present? Some plugins allow for this.

Kontakt does migrate if the host supports VST2>VST3 migration.

Follow up questions: anyone know which DAWs do? I saw zvenx mentioned Cubase, looks like Sonar does, unsure about Reaper and Studio One for example. Maybe a thread for the hosts forum? Definitely something I'm suddenly forced to start getting concerned about.

[EvilDragon]

Studio One does migrate IIRC, not sure about Reaper (but with Reaper you can at the very least manually edit the project file and exchange which plugin it loads).

[benzene]

Re. my concern over migrating to VST3 ... I'm probably being a bit hypothetical and over-cautious especially if we're talking years of rosetta.

Re source material, I'm a hobbyist and like to play with ideas and revisit later. I jam with friends so someone might mention a jam idea from a couple of summers ago and I want to dive in and rework. So source material which lives on is nice.

Plus I do software stuff in my day job so it's like I have a hammer and everything looks like a nail. My mind immediately goes to project files and whether I can just do a search-replace of one plug-in id to another one.

I'm probably overthinking it all and should make music with the nice new Kontakt version instead!

[jamcat]

Apart from the fact that it’s probably not the best idea to use Macs when long term compability is really that important to you (not talking about you necessarily).

From the look of it, Apple has set themselves up for long term compatibility going forward. But they’ve had to break a few eggs to get here. I think that’s what it’s all been about.

[nanostream]

Heh, fair enough, benzene. Have fun!

[nanostream]

From the look of it, Apple has set themselves up for long term compatibility going forward. But they’ve had to break a few eggs to get here. I think that’s what it’s all been about.

Well, it’s possible I guess, but I wouldn’t put any money on that.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah I wouldn't bet on that at all.

[jamcat]

Apple’s transition has been as smooth and seamless as it could possibly be to move users from one CPU architecture to a completely different CPU architecture. It’s been so smooth that people take for granted just what a monumental achievement it’s actually been.

And I think this is where a long, planned multi-year transition ends. Honestly, the big picture should be obvious.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

(but with Reaper you can at the very least manually edit the project file and exchange which plugin it loads).

I have trust issues with NI plugins when it comes to that. Their VST2 and VST3 versions don't always have the same parameter indexing.

Here's the FX params for the VST2 version of Driver.

Code: Select all

 "VST: Driver (Native Instruments GmbH)"
	FXParam 0 "Input"
	FXParam 1 "-"
	FXParam 2 "Resonance"
	FXParam 3 "Frequency"
	FXParam 4 "Distortion"
	FXParam 5 "Color"
	FXParam 6 "Filter Type"
	FXParam 7 "Output"
	FXParam 8 "ENV.Input"
	FXParam 9 "-"
	FXParam 10 "Smooth"
	FXParam 11 "Release"
	FXParam 12 "F.ENV Modulation"
	FXParam 13 "F.ENV Polarity"
	FXParam 14 "D.ENV Polarity"
	FXParam 15 "D.ENV Modulation"
	FXParam 16 "AM.Mode"
	FXParam 17 "AM.ENV Modulatio"
	FXParam 18 "Rate"
	FXParam 19 "Range"
	FXParam 20 "F.AM Modulation"
	FXParam 21 "D.AM Modulation"

Here's the VST3 version...

Code: Select all

"VST3: Driver (Native Instruments)"
	FXParam 0 "Default"
	FXParam 1 "Input"
	FXParam 2 "-"
	FXParam 3 "Resonance"
	FXParam 4 "Frequency"
	FXParam 5 "Distortion"
	FXParam 6 "Color"
	FXParam 7 "Filter Type"
	FXParam 8 "Output"
	FXParam 9 "ENV.Input"
	FXParam 10 "-"
	FXParam 11 "Smooth"
	FXParam 12 "Release"
	FXParam 13 "F.ENV Modulation"
	FXParam 14 "F.ENV Polarity"
	FXParam 15 "D.ENV Polarity"
	FXParam 16 "D.ENV Modulation"
	FXParam 17 "AM.Mode"
	FXParam 18 "AM.ENV Modulation"
	FXParam 19 "Rate"
	FXParam 20 "Range"
	FXParam 21 "F.AM Modulation"
	FXParam 22 "D.AM Modulation"
	FXParam 23 "Bypass"

Notice how they're off by 1? I have a feeling that manually migrating the plugin by editing the Reaper project file would cause recall/automation chaos due to the different parameter IDs between VST2 and VST3.

I've seen other developers that do this too.

[EvilDragon]

If they're off by one I think you can still edit that in the RPP, just gotta hunt where automation lanes are saved etc. Not ideal but at least you can do it, in a bunch of other DAWs you can't as easily, or at all.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

If they're off by one I think you can still edit that in the RPP, just gotta hunt where automation lanes are saved etc. Not ideal but at least you can do it, in a bunch of other DAWs you can't as easily, or at all.

If any Native Instrument beta testers happen to frequent this forum, or anyone happens to be in touch with them, please for the love of God ask them to pay more attention to automation parameters in the future! At least for any new plugins.

Different automation parameter indexes between plugin versions is a bad practice. And so is NI's other common practice of re-using automation parameters depending on the particular mode or function versus having a "one parameter per function" approach that most developers take. You'll see that in the Driver parameter list with parameters that are named "-". With NI, and they're the only ones that do this that I've seen, that means "hey, this might be 3 different things depending on what mode you're in." Just a sloppy implementation IMO. U-he would never do that. And Driver isn't alone, most of their recent effects do that.

[btfnk]

Wow. So they just gave up on VST2.

NI sucks.

I have years worth of instrumentals, half finished ideas, track starters, etc that I will have to spend significant time rebuilding now when I get a client that picks them to work on. Previously I would just open and go. I had hoped things would be seamless again on my M1 Pro after NI updated. I'm pissed.

Why would anyone have loyalty to a company this blind to it's users needs?

[EvilDragon]

So you don't have your previous computer on which all that stuff would still work? To me this is a basic contingency, especially if one is on Mac (seems I'm not alone in that line of reasoning, based on at least Syntonica's posts above).

And again - VST2 will work in Rosetta mode for opening old projects. Granted, Rosetta won't be there forever, but it should still give you ample time to convert your projects.