Bitwig Studio 4.3 Released!

[Trensharo]

I don't understand why users feel negative towards CLAP and Bitwig's choice?!

I don't feel negative towards it. I just think the amount of weight being given to it is exaggerated.

I have Arturia Keylab 49 and ATOM.

I already have a Oxygen Pro 49/Launchkey 49 MK3 and Maschine MK3. I think that's the point I was making. People can buy Live and feel fairly confident that their hardware will be supported.

It's like Windows vs. Linux, in 2001. You always knew a PCI Modem would work on Windows, so you bought whatever if that is the OS you were going to run... However, you had to make sure you held off on buying one if you even thought you would want to run Linux, because the hardware support there was not equivalent. That required research.

Of course your Keylab and ATOM modems work on your "Linux DAW," as they do with my "Windows DAW"... IN ADDITION to the Oxygen Pro and Launchkey modems I already own. So I can either "upgrade to Windows XP" and keep using the modems I already own, or install Linux and trade in my modems at a loss to get modems that work better on Linux... because being capped at 33kbps speeds suck

[pdxindy]

I don't understand why users feel negative towards CLAP and Bitwig's choice?!

It's only been a few people... and the arguments they make generally show they don't understand the value of CLAP for developers. Compare that will all the developers who have shown interest or who have already decided to make CLAP versions of their plugins.

I'm not a developer, but since I use Bitwig and my favorite and most used synths are from u-he, CLAP is fantastic for me. I am looking forward to both Bazille and RePro CLAP versions. The sound quality of RePro with unlimited modulation? Freakin awesome!!

[EnGee]

I already have a Oxygen Pro 49/Launchkey 49 MK3 and Maschine MK3. I think that's the point I was making. People can buy Live and feel fairly confident that their hardware will be supported.

Not always! I had Nektar P4 and the best DAWs support it were Reason and Bitwig while Live has the worst support! But in general, yes. My Keylab integrates best with Live, Bitwig and Studio One and worst with Reason (Cubase is ok but not as good as Studio One!).

It's like Windows vs. Linux, in 2001. You always knew a PCI Modem would work on Windows, so you bought whatever if that is the OS you were going to run... However, you had to make sure you held off on buying one if you even thought you would want to run Linux, because the hardware support there was not equivalent. That required research.

Of course your Keylab and ATOM modems work on your "Linux DAW," as they do with my "Windows DAW"... IN ADDITION to the Oxygen Pro and Launchkey modems I already own. So I can either "upgrade to Windows XP" and keep using the modems I already own, or install Linux and trade in my modems at a loss to get modems that work better on Linux... because being capped at 33kbps speeds suck

What?! No! It is not like Windows vs Linux (anytime!).
I have no idea what are you talking about!!

[EnGee]

I don't understand why users feel negative towards CLAP and Bitwig's choice?!

It's only been a few people... and the arguments they make generally show they don't understand the value of CLAP for developers. Compare that will all the developers who have shown interest or who have already decided to make CLAP versions of their plugins.

I'm not a developer, but since I use Bitwig and my favorite and most used synths are from u-he, CLAP is fantastic for me. I am looking forward to both Bazille and RePro CLAP versions. The sound quality of RePro with unlimited modulation? Freakin awesome!!

I'm not a DSP/Audio software developer either! But it is a common sense. If something makes my life easier, why shouldn't I use it. Some sacrifices are needed of course, but it is a risk like all new things in life.
Anyway, it is still very new, and things like that needs time to settle and establish a foot on developers ground. It needs patience and continuous development to convince other DAWs/Developers to try it and support it.

Yes, I think the sound design has huge possibilities now with Bitwig/CLAP. It is just getting better and better with time

[PieBerger]

IMO, the biggest advantage Ableton has over Bitwig is hardware support.

https://mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html

[Trensharo]

I already have a Oxygen Pro 49/Launchkey 49 MK3 and Maschine MK3. I think that's the point I was making. People can buy Live and feel fairly confident that their hardware will be supported.

Not always! I had Nektar P4 and the best DAWs support it were Reason and Bitwig while Live has the worst support! But in general, yes. My Keylab integrates best with Live, Bitwig and Studio One and worst with Reason (Cubase is ok but not as good as Studio One!).

It's like Windows vs. Linux, in 2001. You always knew a PCI Modem would work on Windows, so you bought whatever if that is the OS you were going to run... However, you had to make sure you held off on buying one if you even thought you would want to run Linux, because the hardware support there was not equivalent. That required research.

Of course your Keylab and ATOM modems work on your "Linux DAW," as they do with my "Windows DAW"... IN ADDITION to the Oxygen Pro and Launchkey modems I already own. So I can either "upgrade to Windows XP" and keep using the modems I already own, or install Linux and trade in my modems at a loss to get modems that work better on Linux... because being capped at 33kbps speeds suck

What?! No! It is not like Windows vs Linux (anytime!).
I have no idea what are you talking about!!

Nektar uses a driver for this. They work great in all DAWs the driver supports, including Cakewalk and Cubase, Ableton, Pro Tools, DP, etc. But their keyboards are mediocre, so they aren't the goto for most people.

Analogy was clearly lost on you, even though it was pretty straightforward. I'm guessing you didn't actually read it.

[Trensharo]

IMO, the biggest advantage Ableton has over Bitwig is hardware support.

https://mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html

Commented on this stuff in another thread. I'm not using this kind of stuff as it just increases PC maintenance.

I need support that won't break on an update, or have bugs that aren't caught by crowdsourced beta testers, etc.

And even if I did, the VST scanning issues were a showstopper for me.

[PieBerger]

IMO, the biggest advantage Ableton has over Bitwig is hardware support.

https://mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html

Commented on this stuff in another thread. I'm not using this kind of stuff as it just increases PC maintenance.

I need support that won't break on an update, or have bugs that aren't caught by crowdsourced beta testers, etc.

And even if I did, the VST scanning issues were a showstopper for me.

That's a bummer, VST performance/stability was one of the reasons I left Live for Bitwig and now that I have an M1 Air (in addition to my PC) I'm even more grateful for Bitwig's plugin handling because I can mix and match native and Rosetta plugins while still running BW in native mode. AFAIK no other DAW can do that, not even Logic...

[EnGee]

Analogy was clearly lost on you, even though it was pretty straightforward. I'm guessing you didn't actually read it.

Your analogy is wrong. Anyway, why do you use analogy?! Just say it! It's not a rocket science you are talking about and needs to explain it with easier examples or analogy!

Hardware support is a mix bag in DAWs. In general Companies are supporting the most popular DAWs but that list is different from manufacture to manufacture. In my case I don't care a lot about the hardware support because I use my PC keyboard/mouse in navigation and performs various tasks. I like my Arturia keylab because most of all is the keybed which exist also on other keyboards (Fatar). For most of the parameters in the DAW and instruments I use the mouse unless recording automation, in this case I like to map that parameter to a knob/slider. But for fine editing I return to use the mouse in automation.

Also, it is subjective what you like and what I like! You don't like the colours in Bitwig, but I do. Some hates orange, but I like it. You don't like the workflow in Bitwig and you prefer Live, it is your choice and your taste, nothing is wrong with that. I'm sure you are flexible enough to respect others choices. Those choices might not fit you, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

[pdxindy]

Overall, Live has the most comprehensive hardware controller support. In my case, whenever I buy a controller, over time I always gravitate back to the mouse and screen.

[xbitz]

+ Bitwig (vs Live) knows MIDI channels in its inner routing, after starting to use/trigger CLAP devices it will be quite important fast enough

btw. colors of Bitwig have functionality all of them represent a freq-range

isn't a matter of love ... by default (can use a custom one too)

[Trensharo]

Hardware support is a mix bag in DAWs.

Not in Ableton Live, generally speaking. I am literally talking about what I experienced running the software on my machines. It's not really a debatable topic.

In general Companies are supporting the most popular DAWs but that list is different from manufacture to manufacture.

Sure, which is something I absolutely agree with considering what I wrote upthread. Your "Linux Controller" works fine on your "Linux DAW," but my "Windows Controller" isn't supported. So, either I buy a "Linux Controller," or I buy "Windows."

Analogy was totally on point, you just completely and utterly failed to comprehend, even as I attempted to explain with a situation any computer user should be able to easily grasp. Sorry, I guess that was a case of "expectations being too high."

In my case I don't care a lot about the hardware support because I use my PC keyboard/mouse in navigation and performs various tasks.

I care. I was making this choice for me. In the end, I ended up ordering Live Suite yesterday.

I like my Arturia keylab because most of all is the keybed which exist also on other keyboards (Fatar).

Honestly, if I wanted a Fantom 7 I would order one right now and not really feel the hit. I'm glad you like your KeyLab, but what does this have to do with me and my making a choice based on what I own working with the software I'm going to use?

Also, it is subjective what you like and what I like! You don't like the colours in Bitwig, but I do. Some hates orange, but I like it. You don't like the workflow in Bitwig and you prefer Live, it is your choice and your taste, nothing is wrong with that. I'm sure you are flexible enough to respect others choices. Those choices might not fit you, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

It's objective when I'm spending my money on it, as that choice is based on my preferences. My preferences are the law as regards to my purchasing decisions. What you like literally is irrelevant to me, so I don't know why you seem so invested in debating my reasons for spending my money a specific product.

I am not saying you have to agree with the weight I give to those preferences, BTW, but I'm not going to have an endless debate with you; as you tell me why everything is fine while I'm the one spending the money to use it.

Again, I have two controllers. One on my workstation in my home studio, and another at my laptop desk in the house for when I don't want a change of pace or just don't want to sit in at that PC. Neither of them are supported well by Bitwig, so unless you're suggesting I just up and change both of them for a KeyLab MK2 because it WorksForYou™, I dunno what else to say.

And that isn't even one of the bigger issues I had with the software. It was just a disparity I noticed immediately due to the fact that I do own a variety of hardware and could test both DAWs' support of that hardware. As I stated in my earlier post, Bitwig's support for my Maschine MK3 controller was very impressive - so this obviously depends on what the end user owns or uses. Someone buying Bitwig who doesn't already own that hardware could preempt this problem by simply buying a controller that is better supported by that DAW.

No where in any of my posts did I insinuate that this was anything other than an issue specific to me and my hardware purchases. I was never going to buy Bitwig simply because someone on a forum stated it WorksForThem™ with the different hardware they own. I am not 12 years old.

[EnGee]

It's objective when I'm spending my money on it, as that choice is based on my preferences. My preferences are the law as regards to my purchasing decisions. What you like literally is irrelevant to me, so I don't know why you seem so invested in debating my reasons for spending my money a specific product.

Well, I already said it is subjective! You are the one who generalizing things and insists on one size fits all!

Oh! I understand now! You are God! You decide what is right or wrong for us because it depends on what fits your needs.

I also have no debates with gods because they are the centre of the universe and it is hard to discuss anything with them So, to each his own

[EnGee]

Overall, Live has the most comprehensive hardware controller support. In my case, whenever I buy a controller, over time I always gravitate back to the mouse and screen.

Yes indeed! I have several controllers offline gathering dust! Even with specific controllers like Push 2 or ATOM, I find I'm using the keyboard/mouse combo mainly for controlling everything except some recording what I play (some automations). I had Push 2 but sold it, as I don't make gigs or using it live. So, couldn't find an advantage over what I have already (midi keyboard, pc keyboard and mouse). The same happened with Maschine hardware (although I have KK M32 keyboard now, but it is just when I want to relax and put it on my laps).
I don't have a touch screen though, I wonder how that will change my workflow! But I think I would hate my fingers prints all over the place and keep wiping the screen like with my phone!

[pdxindy]

I don't have a touch screen though, I wonder how that will change my workflow! But I think I would hate my fingers prints all over the place and keep wiping the screen like with my phone!

A touch screen would not work for me in my studio. My monitor screen sits about 3 feet in front of me. Right in front of me are my two controllers.

My experience indicates that placing a monitor such that it is most comfortable for neck, posture and eyes when using for extended periods, then it is not so comfortable or precise for my hands and also tiring.