Waves new - BB Tubes

[imrae]

Whatever one thinks of the measurements (I wouldn't agree that the sine sweeps / pink-noise matching are entirely useless but a closer look at level-dependence seems necessary) I think there is a lot of merit to the complaint that none of the presets or demo material is level-matched. If Waves were trying to fool people with loudness this is how they would do it. (And we've seen it before with e.g. Vitamin).

The sensitivity knob should be the largest, and some other saturation plugins do just that: level-matched gain with output trim. On hardware a) this is a bit harder to implement b) it's easy to use two hands to adjust gain and output simultaneously. On-screen with a mouse, it's really awkward to jump back and forth between the controls while looking for a sweet spot. And the lack of level-matching in presets implies that this is not how it is supposed to be used...

[noiseboyuk]

Whatever one thinks of the measurements (I wouldn't agree that the sine sweeps / pink-noise matching are entirely useless but a closer look at level-dependence seems necessary) I think there is a lot of merit to the complaint that none of the presets or demo material is level-matched. If Waves were trying to fool people with loudness this is how they would do it. (And we've seen it before with e.g. Vitamin).

The sensitivity knob should be the largest, and some other saturation plugins do just that: level-matched gain with output trim. On hardware a) this is a bit harder to implement b) it's easy to use two hands to adjust gain and output simultaneously. On-screen with a mouse, it's really awkward to jump back and forth between the controls while looking for a sweet spot. And the lack of level-matching in presets implies that this is not how it is supposed to be used...

Yes, this.

In one sense Waves only have themselves to blame with all the hoopla and the level matching thing. It doesn't follow that it's snake oil as many here have pointed out, but hey it's the internet. So.

[jens]

Whatever one thinks of the measurements (I wouldn't agree that the sine sweeps / pink-noise matching are entirely useless but a closer look at level-dependence seems necessary) I think there is a lot of merit to the complaint that none of the presets or demo material is level-matched. If Waves were trying to fool people with loudness this is how they would do it. (And we've seen it before with e.g. Vitamin).

The sensitivity knob should be the largest, and some other saturation plugins do just that: level-matched gain with output trim. On hardware a) this is a bit harder to implement b) it's easy to use two hands to adjust gain and output simultaneously. On-screen with a mouse, it's really awkward to jump back and forth between the controls while looking for a sweet spot. And the lack of level-matching in presets implies that this is not how it is supposed to be used...

Well, first of all the preset output-gain is a whole other issue and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he didn't drive the plugin nearly hot enough and then claimed the presets would all sound the same and be subtle to the point of not doing anything audible, so please don't bring it up in a way that seems to hint at these wholy different issue being connected in some way.

with that being out of the way:

I am sure it's a mere lack of quality control, much rather than some conspiracy. Many presets are fairly well output-compensated. E.g. you can tell that Yoad Nevo took great care in regards to this.

But then again for this tool presets do not make a whole lot of sense anyway.

About the "Sensitivity"-knob: many if not most beloved saturation/distortion plugin have an even much smaller trim and/or input control. Almost none have a nice LED like that. And if you struggle with basics of this kind, this plugin most probably just isn't for you.

[astralprojection]

Of course people is free disagree, laugh and think I have insect ears and I should be banned (I think I qualify among those who praised the plugin, am I wrong?)... as much as I'm free to use the ignore list feature whenever I feel like to...


edit: it looks like mods are cleaning up the thread while I was posting this...

Damn the mods really did us dirty with this one.. I dont think thats fair, to just delete everything, but it is what it is. Anyway, that was a joke good sir, that you should be banned and have insect ears. I mean comon, who takes that seriously?

And I dont wanna get into it today with anyone so Im just gonna state this then Ill be out of here. I stand by my comments made on the plugin, i think its pretty useless, and I dont agree what is said about pink noise being a useless test. Maybe the gain was low, and I give you that much. Im not sure and Im not gonna watch the video again. Either way theres a billion plugins, stock and otherwise that works exactly the same way, and is non-linear. This guy above talks about non linearity as it is something unique and brand new invention. Comon now. Tubes have been simulated and emulated time and time and time again. Theres nothing new with this plugin.
Thats it, no further discussion wanted. Have a nice day everyone and dont put people on ignore list because of a joke or a disagreement, thats just ... sad. And lame.

[jens]

This guy above talks about non linearity as it is something unique and brand new invention.

No, I absolutely did not in any way. That's just a sad and pathetic way of trying to get out of your - sadly now deleted - proof that you in no way at all understand how plugins like these - and how real tubes - actually work, yet instead of humbly trying to read up on these basics slag off the plugin in question as if you had the slightest hint of an idea what you are actually talking about. And the exact same goes for Paul Third. That was my point!

No, non-linearity in audio-plugins is neither new, nor special, nor rare nor revolutionary in any way. For years there have been hundreds of plugins which incorporate non-linear behaviour in some way. And yet you guys are totally oblivious as to how this stuff works i.e. that its behaviour is vastly level-dependent.
This is really such basic stuff. And yet someone posts Paul Third's video here as if it contained some kind of higher wisdom instead of being the sad, utterly-failed attempt by a clueless guy to grasp audio -processes that painfully obviously fly miles high up in the sky past his head - CONVENTIONAL AND SIMPLE enough as they are.

So no - I talk about non-linearity as being the most basic stuff everyone should know how to deal with.
If you don't then shut up, be humble and read up on it.

[jens]

Oh, and by the way: in no way did I praise BB Tubes here.

The jury is still out on me whether I actually even really like the plugin - so far I'm certainly not highly impressed by it.

But that is a completely different issue altogether.

[astralprojection]

why are you so mad? damn. And I understand it perfectly, you have no idea what and what i dont understand. Youre projecting now. But as I said I dont wanna get into it today with anyone, but it seems you are on a war path or something against me and thats cool, is it cause what i said to you yesterday? Well Im not gonna apologise for it I stand by it 100%. Now, lets not have the mods come back, eh? Relax.

[jens]

why are you so mad? damn.

Is this a serious question? Do I really need to explain the overly obvious? Let's just say I like facts and knowledge and I hate the spreading of lies, false information, stupidity, conspiracy theories, and so forth.
All the comments below Paul Third's video where he is praised for revealing truth even though he knows jack shit and just talks bollocks and understands nothing make it so much worse.

Help debunking the guy and calling him out for what he is or shut the f**k up, I say!

If you are however defending him then in my book you also totally deserve to get called out for it 24/7.

And I understand it perfectly, you have no idea what and what i dont understand. Youre projecting now.

Nope, you claimed here that Paul Third successfully managed to replicate BB Tubes with some other plugin - which he most clearly and obviously did not.

Plus, of course, you replied to my initial post regarding his video where I called it an "epic fail"- which it clearly and totally is - and attacked and insulted me in the lowest possible way.

So no, there was enough evidence that you TOTALLY did not get it. No amount of back-pedalling is going to change that.

[astralprojection]

sigh.. You know what your problem is? Besides what i told you yesterday? You think you know it all, that you have some sort of authority on the matter. You have an opinion, is what you have. He DID null them out, but then you said "oh but he used pink noise" Yes? Pink noise is tons of sine waves intermodulating all at once. Its a very broad and live signal. Its not "static" by any means. If he did use low gain, like i said, i dont know, and im not gonna watch the video again. But ill give you that one. Low gain isnt gonna make tubes do anything, and I agree with this. So if thats the case, then Ill concede it was a bad test. But using pink noise in itself isnt a bad way to test things.

And so what If i replied to you, calling YOU out; you just said your philosophy is calling people out 24/7. Well same here. And I called you out on what I thought was important, it was my opinion, and you have yours.
Dont you see how hypocritical you are? And no, there was zero evidence to what you think means I didnt get it. Thats again just your opinion, you dont have a clue about me and what i understand. Back pedaling? Im trying to be cordial today, and polite. Last night was a doozy. Today Im trying to be a bit more mature with it, but I see thats impossible with you, you are all in your feelings. Please dont reply anymore as it will escalate and the mods will come back and lets avoid that.
You go ahead and believe what you want, and Ill do the same.

[HcDoom]

We will see how the plugin will perform once Waves fixes oversampling 4x and 8x - until then, its just all guessing in the dark regarding how does the saturation really sound once you start cranking it up.

[whassup]

Or you could oversample it yourself using things like Metaplugin or Reaper. Just sayin.

[standalone]

After having experienced like half a dozen examples of Paul Third drama all over internet, I can tell that he is every bit as annoying as Waves' marketing.

[vurt]

re videos - can we stop with the posed shock/thoughtful faces in thumbnails.

[adl]

re videos - can we stop with the posed shock/thoughtful faces in thumbnails.

Unfortunately not, if you want to use the YouTube algorithm to get more views. It actually helps to show your face (even better if it has some crazy expression).

[vurt]

well, we should mark this, as the beginning of the end of human civilization.