Daniel did it again - Rhino "Textures" Teaser

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gol quoth
Except that no, samples don't offer that sound-creation possibility. Unless maybe, you re-synthesize them (through clever ways, or more commonly additive re-synthesis)


What utter nonsense. Maybe you cant think of any sound creation possibilities when using samples within a synthesiser architecture, but thats not a limitation for the rest of us.

There's not much you can do with a sample

Yeah, right. :roll:

it shows in this thread since the problem of not following the tempo arises.

A sample 'not following tempo' in a specific synth architecture has precisely zero to do with potential synthesis utility of samples.

I'm not claiming that Rhino's architecture is inferior because it can playback samples. I'm claiming that it doesn't make it superior in any way (read: it's a gadget), and when it's used, well you don't get any of the benefits of synthesis anymore.

So you're saying that in Rhino samples cant modulate other samples or sounds? And that you cant waveshape the samples, nor can you ring-modulate them or filter them, or any of those other 'advantages of synthesis' that the non-sample waveforms can be used with.

Hmmmm.

But I could care less. I only care and messed with this thread just in case, marketing-wise, such soundbanks were used to 'show what a synth is capable of'.

Of course you did.

If this ever happened, then every new synth would playback samples, and use great soundbanks to demo themselves, which would make no sense.

Again, pure nonsense.

I listened to the MP3's - those samples are great. But do they come from Rhino?

How does it matter where the original source material came from if it means that Rhino users have access to potentially useful new sounds for use within the tool they own.

Certainly a little, but as it sounds, a very little (for the layering & filtering maybe). Were they recorded from real instruments? Or other synthesizers, soft or hard? And/or post-processed?

Who cares?

Then maybe you should consider getting these synthesizers.

Yeah, because of course that would be both cheaper and simpler than getting this bank.

:roll:

Or use a sampler that could make a better use of those samples, and as you wish, to stretch them.

Or use Rhino. No wait, apparently there's some critical reason why that's not an option, isnt there? Remind me again? Because something else different could maybe do some sort of stuff with the same samples. Erm, right.

In fact why use any synths, whatsoever? Why not just use a single-oscillator with only sinewave output, and do manual additive synthesis to produce everything? After all, if there's an alternative way of doing it, it must be that using Rhino (or by extension, anything else whatsoever) is completely pointless.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."

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whyterabbyt wrote:gol quoth
Except that no, samples don't offer that sound-creation possibility. Unless maybe, you re-synthesize them (through clever ways, or more commonly additive re-synthesis)


What utter nonsense. Maybe you cant think of any sound creation possibilities when using samples within a synthesiser architecture, but thats not a limitation for the rest of us.

There's not much you can do with a sample

Yeah, right. :roll:

it shows in this thread since the problem of not following the tempo arises.

A sample 'not following tempo' in a specific synth architecture has precisely zero to do with potential synthesis utility of samples.

I'm not claiming that Rhino's architecture is inferior because it can playback samples. I'm claiming that it doesn't make it superior in any way (read: it's a gadget), and when it's used, well you don't get any of the benefits of synthesis anymore.

So you're saying that in Rhino samples cant modulate other samples or sounds? And that you cant waveshape the samples, nor can you ring-modulate them or filter them, or any of those other 'advantages of synthesis' that the non-sample waveforms can be used with.

Hmmmm.

But I could care less. I only care and messed with this thread just in case, marketing-wise, such soundbanks were used to 'show what a synth is capable of'.

Of course you did.

If this ever happened, then every new synth would playback samples, and use great soundbanks to demo themselves, which would make no sense.

Again, pure nonsense.

I listened to the MP3's - those samples are great. But do they come from Rhino?

How does it matter where the original source material came from if it means that Rhino users have access to potentially useful new sounds for use within the tool they own.

Certainly a little, but as it sounds, a very little (for the layering & filtering maybe). Were they recorded from real instruments? Or other synthesizers, soft or hard? And/or post-processed?

Who cares?

Then maybe you should consider getting these synthesizers.

Yeah, because of course that would be both cheaper and simpler than getting this bank.

:roll:

Or use a sampler that could make a better use of those samples, and as you wish, to stretch them.

Or use Rhino. No wait, apparently there's some critical reason why that's not an option, isnt there? Remind me again? Because something else different could maybe do some sort of stuff with the same samples. Erm, right.

In fact why use any synths, whatsoever? Why not just use a single-oscillator with only sinewave output, and do manual additive synthesis to produce everything? After all, if there's an alternative way of doing it, it must be that using Rhino (or by extension, anything else whatsoever) is completely pointless.


what rabbyt says ...

the addition of sample import was a major factor in my purchase of rhino ...

i have been using ( and continue to use ) absynth2 , which has sample based , and grain based oscillators ... :love:

simply cannot be beat for sound design ...
Image

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I do find other developer's criticism of a competing product more than a little distasteful. Also, to suggest that users don't know where the sounds comes from is more than a little patronising as a number of users asked for this feature to be implemented.
elbaggio.com

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no additive
But Rhino isn't an additive synthesizer neither. Or then by definition, all synthesizers and samplers would be.
Additive synthesizers are cameleon, whitenoise, etc.

I do agree that you can go creative with samples (or bitmaps) in a realtime additive synthesizer, and turn them into something totally different.
and grain based oscillators
Granular synthesis actually offers a big freedom with samples, almost like re-synthesizing does. This is more than a sampler.
but thats not a limitation for the rest of us
You certainly can do great & creative music with a soundbank, but you will never turn a piano soundbank into a trombone.
So you're saying that in Rhino samples cant modulate other samples or sounds? And that you cant waveshape the samples, nor can you ring-modulate them or filter them, or any of those other 'advantages of synthesis' that the non-sample waveforms can be used with.
I call those effects, but call it synthesis for yourself if you want..
Who cares?
You must be the perfect customer for romplers
Or use Rhino. No wait, apparently there's some critical reason why that's not an option, isnt there? Remind me again?
No, you're right, use Rhino. I never said you shouldn't, far from it. Just don't call it synthesis, ok? This is the only problem I had with this thread.

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Gol wrote:No, you're right, use Rhino. I never said you shouldn't, far from it. Just don't call it synthesis, ok? This is the only problem I had with this thread.
Gol,

Maybe you should re-read the thread from the beginning. You were the first one to bring the "synthesis" word into it. So it seems like you brought your own problem along.

Daniel's latest bank uses samples, so it's not "synthesis" in your book. Fine. If you want to debate semantics any further, you may want to check the various DX presets he did for Rhino. Or most presets from the Ambient or Morpheus banks... Or, well, try to convince a Korg or Roland representative that the M1 and D50 were not synthesizers. That would be fun.

'Tick

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No, you're right, use Rhino. I never said you shouldn't, far from it. Just don't call it synthesis, ok? This is the only problem I had with this thread.
Sample-playback Synthesizers are properly called. You can see Kurzweil, Yamaha, Roland and hundreds of other brands uing a sample to generate sound.

If we revise the semiotic contents, 'synthesis' involves 'synthetic' elements. 'synthetic' as in 'not natural, created by men'. Then, most things creating non-natural or used to create sounds in a non-natural way are indeed synthesizers, and they do use synthesis. Anyways, this doesn't mean anythin, is all buzzwords.

OTOH, "samplers" are totally bad named in the software world. None of them can sample as their hardware counterparts (well, except GS3). They are al 'sample players'.

Now, if I use a 256 sample wavetable which I fill real-time, and then I loop it. Isnt that playing a sample? yes it is. Now, if I don't store the waveform itself, but I store the impulse trains to compose the waveform realtime, isn't that playing a sample as well?

In case of resynthesis... doesn't the harmonic content comes from a sample? So, isn't it just a sample manipulation as well?

There's a difference between playing a straight wav and resynthesizing sound of course. But there's no spec to tell you what's the minimum transformation you have to do to call it a 'synthesizer'. Actually, I happen to think of Kontakt more as a synthesizer than a sampler.

So I guess anyone can set the fine line between synthesizers and samplers anywhere, according to his convenience ;)

-René
Let's Rock & Roll

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gol wrote:
no additive
But Rhino isn't an additive synthesizer neither. Or then by definition, all synthesizers and samplers would be.
Additive synthesizers are cameleon, whitenoise, etc.
for your information:

Rhino offers the possibility to use six user-definable 'waves' as oscillators.

These 'waves' have 64adjustable partials for both: volume and phase.

You can draw waveform from scratch or alter imported syncle-cycle waves.

How this is something 'all synthesizers and samplers' are capable of is beyond me. :?

Translation:

You're speaking about a synth whose basic feature-set you don't even know. :!:

Perhaps it's time to leave this thread, no?

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jens quoth

You're speaking about a synth whose basic feature-set you don't even know. :!:


You reckon ;)
I'm not claiming that Rhino's architecture is inferior because it can playback samples..... when it's used, well you don't get any of the benefits of synthesis anymore.
What gave his lack of knowledge of Rhino away ;)
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."

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Rhino is what Rhino is. Gol, don't hijack a thread because your definition of the terminology is slightly different than others. If you really want to know what's under Rhino's hood or which sounds use samples and which one's don't; break out your credit card and buy it and educate yourself. Your synthesizers are nice instruments, too, but don't consider them superior to any other product because they use a technology you don't yet use, but admit you will include in the future. The point of this thread was to inform Rhino users of a new bank release which could expand their availabe range of sounds, if they wanted.

Because of these different outlooks the end user will benifit with more choices to use what he/she feels most comfortable with. I conclude that one is neither better nor worse and that the end of the day it's really a simple matter of taste and a waste of time to argue this point.

Please excuse me while I get back to programming my next bank which will give Rhino users even more options for self expression.

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jens wrote:You're speaking about a synth whose basic feature-set you don't even know.
Nah Gol knows the features of Rhino quite well.
daniel wrote:If you really want to know what's under Rhino's hood or which sounds use samples and which one's don't; break out your credit card and buy it and educate yourself.
He won't have to. The FL guys have had a Rhino NFR for quite some time.

'Tick

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I see the rumors of Gol being a flaming reject are all true. Why don't you crawl back into your hole? You bring nothing to the table and only expose your own arrogance and ignorance. Go off and post in the "worst host" thread, eh? Shouldn't you be.. working.. or something? :P :P :P :P :P

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rhino works for me, it's currently my go-to VSTi and no blast of uneducated dreck from what appears to be a very jealous competitor will change that!
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.

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How this is something 'all synthesizers and samplers' are capable of is beyond me.
Even Big Tick would agree with me on this - Sytrus offers such a precomputed 'additive' as well, that doesn't make it an additive synthesizer neither. If you don't see the difference with a real additive synthesizer, it's too bad for you.
The FL guys have had a Rhino NFR for quite some time
looks like they're hiding me things :)
The point of this thread was to inform Rhino users of a new bank release which could expand their availabe range of sounds, if they wanted
The point of this thread was really legitimate. My post wasn't against you, nor the synthesizers itself, but against some user comments, like this:
You sure know how to treat/work the Rhino
As usual, Daniel's patches are superb and continue to make Rhino an exceptional VSTi
..you wouldn't hear anything like this about a sampler [for rené: ROM or RAMpler] each time a new soundbank is made. That's what made me think some were considering this as realtime & tweakable synthesis.
I see the rumors of Gol being a flaming reject are all true. Why don't you crawl back into your hole?
I see the rumors about you being.. well I don't know you.. stay in your hole then

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please pardon my interruption of the arguements :wink: but i just wanted to take a moment to complement daniel on creating yet another terrific patch bank.

truely excellent work once again...these patches are awesome!
i am very happy with my purchase. 8)

-ugo

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Yeah, back on topic, may it stay that way :? :tantrum:

I own all of Daniels Rhino banks, and I can say that they seem to just get better and better! I can't wait for the next one to come out! Daniel sure has a talent for working the Rhino. :D
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.

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I logged on to a fight and a forum broke out!!! :P :wink:

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