SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

[gentleclockdivider]

WHat he can do is download the original sy77 rom files from sector 101 ( I have already done that just in case sector 101 get a cease and decist ) , convert to wave , adjust one sampe ( as in sample unit ) convert back to bin .
Voila , sample is modified

so? modified samples are derived works, and in no way exempt from the copyright restrictions of the source material used.

Fair point , maybe it was a bit naive of me to think that.
After all , these samples are nothing spectaculair , they are of the shelf ooh-ahhhs,flutes , timpani stuff and a few synth waves .
As someone said earlier , recreating them with a modern rompler is not difficult at all

[gaggle of hermits]

you'd probably want to compand the arse off them, which would probably also help with their FMability. those samples were heavily processed to sound even vaguely good given the memory restrictions of the time, so modern samples will likely have a different feel overall.

I was going to do some experiments in Tracktion's f'em using additive hybrids via resynthesis to build some waves that interact better with the fm ... but haven't really got around to it yet.

this synth does look dead interesting though, original samples or not.

[Deisss]

Sounds very nice

[Cochrane]

Yeah I don't want to take any chances with the original Yamaha samples. I get that it's disappointing to many, but I don't want to risk being shut down.

Please also allow user to load their wave factory bank: I don't think is forbidden or make the whole project at risk!

I will add a versatile set of samples myself though. I know that doesn't help with playing the original AWM patches, but I still think the project makes sense without being able to do that. Honestly, if I had the space I would've gotten a SY99 instead of a TG77, precisely because you can go beyond the original samples with it. The original sample set of the SY77 is not all that interesting imo.

If you make a fully compatible custom sample set (same sample order, same duration and loudness), yet improved in quality, then the much anticipated sysex compatibility could be matched anyway, but allowing user to load another sample set should be the way to go without risks.

Just my 2 cents.

So many thanks indeed for taking the plunge for a SY-77 virtual plugin: a really missing emulation for a really powerful synth.

[egbert101]

Old crappy samples are part of the character of the synth. Take them away and you take away the character of the original. Not a problem if you're creating something new and modern sounding, but big problem if you're obsessed with vintage/recreation of classic era sounds.

[Examigan]

Why is it illegal to sample the ROM when UVI has sampled all these digital romplers, including the SY77, for their Digital Synsations as well? If they said it’s derivative because they were sampling presets, can’t we also say we’re sampling presets with filter fully up, no fx, no mods?

uvi didn’t use the factory presets. they made their own custom presets and then sampled those. They’re not the only ones. cl projects did the same for a Roland jd and a virus library and there are some refills for reason from pinknoise that used the same approach. this seems to be enough to avoid the cease and desist letters.

but the minute Roland sees Digital Native Dance in a list…

Yep, and on the UVI site for Digital Sensations, they don't even name the Roland D-50 (they describe it) or the Yamaha SY-77. I guess they have to be extra careful with certain companies.

EDIT: I just noticed they are named, but that info is shown way down towards the bottom of the page in a smaller font size.

[sheaf]

Please also allow user to load their wave factory bank: I don't think is forbidden or make the whole project at risk!

You can import the SY55 & SY77 preset sample ROMs and expansion wave cards if you have them, but they're not distributed with the plugin.

If you make a fully compatible custom sample set (same sample order, same duration and loudness), yet improved in quality, then the much anticipated sysex compatibility could be matched anyway, but allowing user to load another sample set should be the way to go without risks.

I've thought about making a set that matches up with the original set so the presets still make sense in a way, but in the end I've decided against it. The sounds will never reproduce exactly that way, so I wasn't convinced using the original AWM patches in this manner has a lot of benefit.

Old crappy samples are part of the character of the synth. Take them away and you take away the character of the original. Not a problem if you're creating something new and modern sounding, but big problem if you're obsessed with vintage/recreation of classic era sounds.

The samples I'm adding are of a similar level of fidelity. Mono, 48kHz, not too many notes sampled for the multisamples, and no velocity layers. You can make the same type of sounds, just not the exact same sounds. I understand that for some this is a deal breaker and makes the entire thing worthless, but so be it. In my opinion its character comes from the things you naturally do with this architecture: layering or modulating an FM sound with a sampled sound. Not from being able to utilize this or that specific saxophone sound that comes with the hardware, or whatever. Like I said, if I had a SY99 I would mostly use patches with my own samples. Does that take away from the character of the SY99? I don't believe it does.

[seangm]

trying to use some bathhouse lawyer

You only need a bathhouse lawyer if you are in hot water.

[steb_osc]

I think both sides would agree to the following. Without the original samples, it will be a case of emulating the engine of the SY77, but not recreating the sound of the SY77. You'd not be able to fully replace your hardware SY77 with the software version unless both bases were covered. However, it could be that emulating the engine is what matters most to you as a user.

[OrionAlpha101]

What makes the Sy77 special is the RCM Synthesis = Realtime Convolution and Modulation.
Don't forget this option in the plugin.
In the hardware it is not easy to get good sounds out only sometimes.
But with new samples this will be a good sound design tool hopefully.

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/sy77 ... ttons/5757

[Cochrane]

If you make a fully compatible custom sample set (same sample order, same duration and loudness), yet improved in quality, then the much anticipated sysex compatibility could be matched anyway, but allowing user to load another sample set should be the way to go without risks.

I've thought about making a set that matches up with the original set so the presets still make sense in a way, but in the end I've decided against it. The sounds will never reproduce exactly that way, so I wasn't convinced using the original AWM patches in this manner has a lot of benefit.

Many thanks for your prompt reply.
Sorry if I insist on this argument, but I guess that you spoke about fine tuning the synth engine for allowing a sort of sysex import, is this correct?
Maybe so, the user could load HIS factory wave rom, and HIS factory patches (or any other SY bank...) and have something very similar to an emulation of the original sound patches...

[gentleclockdivider]

What makes the Sy77 special is the RCM Synthesis = Realtime Convolution and Modulation.
Don't forget this option in the plugin.
In the hardware it is not easy to get good sounds out only sometimes.
But with new samples this will be a good sound design tool hopefully.

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/sy77 ... ttons/5757

It basically means filtered awm samples that can be used in the fm enine .
For me the big strength of the tg77 is the zero Hz ratio , the phase adjustment ...run some ( low pass filtered )-samples through a 0hz operator , adjust it's phase and Boomm.
The ulatra fast lopable envelopes , and thank god the three configurable feed-forward-back-routings
I also discovered some crazy stuff ,
The whole AFM output can be selected as an AWM input ( choose afm in waveset ) ,
So instead of using awm waveforms as modulators , you’re using the complete fm output as a modulator inside the same structure.

[carrieres]

what is the zero Hz ratio ?
you can't do it with other FM synth like Dexed or FM8 ?

[sheaf]

Many thanks for your prompt reply.
Sorry if I insist on this argument, but I guess that you spoke about fine tuning the synth engine for allowing a sort of sysex import, is this correct?
Maybe so, the user could load HIS factory wave rom, and HIS factory patches (or any other SY bank...) and have something very similar to an emulation of the original sound patches...

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but if the user has the original wave ROM files they will be loaded automatically if they are placed in the right folder, and you can play every sound. If not, you can still import the original patches via SysEx if you have them. It's just that the missing waves will not play in that case.

what is the zero Hz ratio ?
you can't do it with other FM synth like Dexed or FM8 ?

If an operator has a 0Hz ratio it functions as a waveshaper for its input.

[gentleclockdivider]

what is the zero Hz ratio ?
you can't do it with other FM synth like Dexed or FM8 ?

Zero Hz ratio is not really correct since it not a ratio but a frequency ,
It means the operator is basically a wave shaper ( FM8 can do it , but dexed , dx7 lowest is 1 Hz )
If it's set to 0 degree phase angle you get a sineshaper , set to 90 degrees you get a cosine shaper etc ( which will obviously introduce dc ofset )