Modern P-90s sound more tame to me. Or is it just me?

[tapper mike]

Going back to putting good pickups in cheap guitars to improve them, in my experience, it's always been an improvement.

My experiences mimic your own. Back in the 80's I used to own a 70's lawsuit {magnum) LP Custom. It played well but I always would have to retune after my 6th song. The pups were pathetic. I replaced them with SD's a JB in the bridge and a SH-1 in the neck. Pure heaven.


I got a CIC tele which all the critiques loathed but I love. It's the vintage modified cic vintage modified player [img]s://www.carousell.com.my/p/fender-telecaste ... 190500502/[/img]

Looked and plays better than any MIM I've ever seen/played. The only thing was the only pup setting I liked was position 2. That and the pine body (as opposed to alder) was a bit of a let down.
So I installed a SD P-rail in the bridge and a pair of lace sensor golds for the neck and middle.

The reason for the LS goids was because of all the strats I've ever owned or played my Strat Plus with golds was the best of them and it sounded like "me" nor SRV or Hendrix et al. That being said these golds on this body aren't recreating that for me. Nonetheless with 19 pup variations I get a lot of milage out of it and it's far and away the best C profile neck I've ever played bar none. It's width is only slightly smaller than a standard fender C shape. I'm not a shredder so I'll never need a flat radius or compound radius. This has become my daily driver solid body. If it's out on my studio stand it gets a lot of attention. Takes a great deal for me to switch up to another solid body. Whereas my boxes usually see a once or twice a week rotation.

[Naillerz78]

Going back to putting good pickups in cheap guitars to improve them, in my experience, it's always been an improvement.

My experiences mimic your own. Back in the 80's I used to own a 70's lawsuit {magnum) LP Custom. It played well but I always would have to retune after my 6th song. The pups were pathetic. I replaced them with SD's a JB in the bridge and a SH-1 in the neck. Pure heaven.

I got a CIC tele which all the critiques loathed but I love. It's the vintage modified cic vintage modified player [img]s://www.carousell.com.my/p/fender-telecaste ... 190500502/[/img]

Looked and plays better than any MIM I've ever seen/played. The only thing was the only pup setting I liked was position 2. That and the pine body (as opposed to alder) was a bit of a let down.
So I installed a SD P-rail in the bridge and a pair of lace sensor golds for the neck and middle.

The reason for the LS goids was because of all the strats I've ever owned or played my Strat Plus with golds was the best of them and it sounded like "me" nor SRV or Hendrix et al. That being said these golds on this body aren't recreating that for me. Nonetheless with 19 pup variations I get a lot of milage out of it and it's far and away the best C profile neck I've ever played bar none. It's width is only slightly smaller than a standard fender C shape. I'm not a shredder so I'll never need a flat radius or compound radius. This has become my daily driver solid body. If it's out on my studio stand it gets a lot of attention. Takes a great deal for me to switch up to another solid body. Whereas my boxes usually see a once or twice a week rotation.

Well .. tbh that Tele defo does not fall into the ‘cheap’category! They go fof $900ish used on Reverb? Seriously, the original proposition was using an example of a ‘cheap squier strat’. That’s a big stretch.

https://reverb.com/au/p/fender-modern-p ... rce=google

Re Magnum LP
Yes no doubts the SDs are better than the stock pathetic probably microphonic cheap (?) 70s pickups.
I’m saying but so would a $100 set of decent Gotoh MiJ HBs and the difference in sound would be negligible if they are similar DC output.

Lace sensors tbh are a different story.
Theyre a great replacement pickup for even low qual/cheap guitars. They are a completely different design tho and not what the debate was about. SD & Co don’t make or sell those.thankfully.

I meant traditional design replacement single coil pickups in cheap guitars. Not humbuckers or LS’s.
Those ones cut the tinny highs in a cheap axe so yes defo an improvement. but also a trade off .
I’ve had silver and blue LS scs in strats and teles - very nice sound .. and a dually HB (I think) in a single pickup guitar that sounded amazing
Just imo of course ..But I am right

[tapper mike]

Actually I bought it for $400 USD on ebay used. It's made in China. Most were panned by independent YT influencers because of poor workmanship. Mine was right as rain, I spent about $350 more on the upgrades. Back then I was on a mission to get the best tele I could. Not the closest to authentic tele. Sire wasn't on the radar. In retrospect I'd rather have a Sire T7FM but I'm not making the money anymore and if I did there are other guitars on my list first.

I agree with you about Lace sensors. While they aren't super noisless (says the guy pointing his guitar towards a 55 inch smart TV and desktop) They outshine any rail or stack design intended to replace single coil tone including the noiseless offerings on Strat Ultra's. Every year or two fender claims new or different tone but really it's just the cap which changes the tonal response. As for Rails super mini humbuckers I also agree with you. They are thin and flat sounding without either bright clear highs or lows.

With the Prail. It's really a close to but no cigar for me. I find myself using it in mostly either parallel or series but not in rail or P90 (I have the SD Triple shot installed.)

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Rumor has it that a 94 MIM would have been put together by Custom Shop luthiers. Have we discussed this before?

Really? A friend of mine bought another MIM Standard Strat guitar at the same place, maybe even same day, his sunburst, mine candy apple red, and you can drive a truck through the neck pocket gap on his. Ok...it's not as bad as a completely dogsh*t 70s Tele Deluxe I bought for way too much money and regretted like hell, but still...not a good example. My candy apple red Strat has been great. It's just cosmetically ugly with that sh*t plastic cap.

Never heard about Custom Shop luthiers potentially building those, but the thing is a beauty. One of my favorite guitars. I've got another Strat, a more recent MIM back when the boards were still Rosewood, and it's a nicer guitar on paper and cosmetically, but it's not as good of a player as my cheapy '94, which fits me like a glove.

At the time, MIM Strats were regarded poorly, being just a small step up from the very cheap Squiers. I don't think it was until the early 2000's where MIM's stepped up in quality to where they are now. I have an early 2000's '72 Tele Deluxe Reissue that was MIM and the difference in fit and finish between that and my 94 Strat are night and day. Liked it so much I bought the '70s one with the giant neck pocket where the neck moved around just to get the CuNiFe pickups when it looked like Fender would never make those again. A couple years later they reissued them with the real CuNiFe magnets.

[Naillerz78]

Actually I bought it for $400 USD on ebay used. It's made in China.

That’s a pretty good deal
I tried one here , it was nice but I could tell the difference quality wise to my Mex.
This was my MIM Nashville Deluxe, had it 15 years and sold it during Covid ( have the serial and still searching to buy it back!)

https://reverb.com/au/p/fender-deluxe-n ... 3VEALw_wcB

“Tex Mex” pickups as stock if I remember.
I loved them. Taller strat bobbin in the neck p/u
The best of Tele pickups I ever had tho were a Fender CS set..$300 AUD or so.I think the twisted tele set or hot nocaster (maybe). Amazing but decade ago . Vague on the actual name.

I agree with you about Lace sensors. While they aren't super noisless (etc) As for Rails super mini humbuckers I also agree with you. They are thin and flat sounding without either bright clear highs or lows.

With the Prail. It's really a close to but no cigar for me. I find myself using it in mostly either parallel or series but not in rail or P90 (I have the SD Triple shot installed.)

LS are a very interesting pickup. I found them quite “hi fi” sounding or something. A bit of that 80s sound when clean and w gain just a bit modern sounding for me. Rails take too much character out yep definitely. Flat.never tried a Prail but suspected it didn’t really work as described .. as it was an SD p/u
As u may have gathered, he’s a bullshit artist imo !
The LS humbucker I had for a bit was a very slamming HB under gain :pu:

Funny story - yesterday I sold my Aria LP and Tokai Es335 copies.. and went back to the pawnshop and bought my LP spesh p90 guitar back

Tbh maybe I just don’t like HB’s in Gibson style axes full stop.
They are very over-rated imo. I GAS for an LP or Semi hollow time to time then always end up not playing much an sell. HBs slow me down! Clean sounds are usually meh except for playing blues. Can’t believe ppl pay $800 for PAF copies either. Or buy a Murphy Lab LP and swap out the p/u’s n shit like that. Some folks got more money than sense. Crazy.
I’m crazy when it comes to guitars.. but not that way.

I should be set for a while now with this p90 guitar and a budget ‘casino’ strat style with HBs. That one sounds like a fat tele in the middle position. And a bit more high end with the fender scale. Fingers crossed.
Bit tired of gassing/buying/selling /trading these days.my guitar count must be close to triple digits now. It’s OCD!

[Naillerz78]

One last post on Seymour Duncan and these “B/M/T charts “ for his pickups.

He even states in his own blog re humbuckers the following ;
“ Designed by pickup icon Seth Lover, these pickups used magnetized screws and two coils of wire wound the opposite direction to cancel out hum. This sends a more powerful signal to the amp, full of tight lows and mids. ”

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/late ... humbuckers

By it’s construction a HB basically doubles the fundamental (note) with the double coil and cuts the highs due to the design .

A B/M/T chart makes no sense . As the Treble (highs) are cut out by the nature of the design.
Can’t put highs ‘back in ‘ a humbucker no matter what fancy way it’s wound or what magnets are used.
So any “chart” that shows more T than M for a HB pickup is bullshit. Can’t have a mid “scoop” in a HB pickup. that’s impossible fellas. (Which all his PAF charts claim) he is full of the Ca-Ca.
Complete hookum. Case closed !

[Naillerz78]

I bought the '70s one with the giant neck pocket where the neck moved around just to get the CuNiFe pickups when it looked like Fender would never make those again. A couple years later they reissued them with the real CuNiFe magnets.

How are the CuNife pickups? How would you describe their sound? Never tried those .
Cool name also .. CuNife.
“They cut Like a hot kNife through butter”

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I think I'd describe the CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers like this: start with a PAF, then add a little more touch responsiveness (less compressed) and try to make it bright like a single coil. Like really bright. The neck pickups in particular are just really nice. They're a little more noisy then other humbuckers IMO, but they also were originally wired with 1Meg pots (also a great contributor to the brightness, not just the noise). The new ones recommend 500k pots, but I had those in, and switched to 1Meg. It's the classic sound. Just roll the tone back when it's taking your head off.

Great pickups. The new ones sound very much in the ballpark of the vintage ones. The screws under each strings are actually adjustable pole pieces that you can turn to dial in each string.

[Naillerz78]

I think I'd describe the CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers like this: start with a PAF, then add a little more touch responsiveness (less compressed) and try to make it bright like a single coil. Like really bright. The neck pickups in particular are just really nice. They're a little more noisy then other humbuckers IMO, but they also were originally wired with 1Meg pots (also a great contributor to the brightness, not just the noise). The new ones recommend 500k pots, but I had those in, and switched to 1Meg. It's the classic sound. Just roll the tone back when it's taking your head off.

Great pickups. The new ones sound very much in the ballpark of the vintage ones. The screws under each strings are actually adjustable pole pieces that you can turn to dial in each string.

Nice . Sounds like my cup o’ tea
I like the dialing in thing. But they are quite expensive now the CuNifes.
I was considering something like a Twangbucker design to get more chime back in.

https://www.guitarsandthings.com.au/pic ... ker-pickup

But I ain’t payin $300 a pop

Fitertron HBs do a similar trick (using smaller mismatched coils afaik ) more twangy cleans.
Have a spare set of ‘BHK’ Trons us. stock pups from a Gretch Electromatic series guitar I think.$100 for 2. They give that nice, tight Malcolm young dirty sound for rhythm.

So far in HBs I’ve tried
Bare Knuckle Black Dogs, SD PAFs and Dimarzio’s (stock in a Musiman Silhouette) and some other Boutiquey ones in the trad design ,Nicos and others.
There are just sooo many brands now.
To me those pup’s are all “hot Rod “ HBs.
Result was ‘More of everything ‘ dirty but trade off in clean sounds.I’d like to try some more DiMarzios.

Thing I don’t get about these PAF clones is .. if they are so good why I see so many in the used market ?

https://www.musicswopshop.com.au/collec ... descending

[tapper mike]

“Tex Mex” pickups as stock if I remember.
I loved them. Taller strat bobbin in the neck p/u
The best of Tele pickups I ever had tho were a Fender CS set..$300 AUD or so.I think the twisted tele set or hot nocaster (maybe). Amazing but decade ago . Vague on the actual name.

Tex Mex pups are standard on the Jimmy Vaughn Stratocaster. a little darker and higher output than standard 50's/60's strat pups. They've got a raw gutsy tone about them.

[Uncle E]

Really? A friend of mine bought another MIM Standard Strat guitar at the same place, maybe even same day, his sunburst, mine candy apple red, and you can drive a truck through the neck pocket gap on his. Ok...it's not as bad as a completely dogsh*t 70s Tele Deluxe I bought for way too much money and regretted like hell, but still...not a good example. My candy apple red Strat has been great. It's just cosmetically ugly with that sh*t plastic cap.

The story goes that Fender sent their Spanish speaking custom shop guys to train the people at the Mexico factory. The situation you're describing perfectly sums up what was happening, you could find one that's exquisite (built by a custom shop guy) sitting right next to one that seems like it was built by an amateur (because it was!). However, even the exquisite ones suffer from low quality hardware imported from Asia, which is a practice that still goes on today.

The screws under each strings are actually adjustable pole pieces that you can turn to dial in each string.

According to this blog post, it's mainly the steel base plate (kind of like a Tele bridge pickup) that gives it its unique sound:

https://lawingmusicalproducts.com/dr-la ... seth-lover

[Naillerz78]

Tex Mex pups are standard on the Jimmy Vaughn Stratocaster. a little darker and higher output than standard 50's/60's strat pups. They've got a raw gutsy tone about them.

Oh true
Yes defs Higher output. One of the best tele bridge pickups. imo. Loads of guts, really delivers the goods

[BertKoor]

Complete hookum. Case closed !

The appropriate word here is humbug

[Naillerz78]

Complete hookum. Case closed !

The appropriate word here is humbug

Or just flogging dead horses I guess

[Naillerz78]

Complete hookum. Case closed !

The appropriate word here is humbug

But if you think it’s not BS .. well you do you.

Funny tho, how every man and his dog are setting up small companies making boutique “holy grail” PAF Pickups.
There seems to be an insatiable demand to capture that great old “PAF” sound… or maybe cos it’s all BS to begin with , and they are cashing in on fools chasing a myth
Holy Grail indeed.

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/we-te ... stacked-up

It’s not the fancy chalice, it’s the wooden cup.