The bs of Pro DAWs Vs amateur DAWs

[audiojunkie]

Question: How do you record a live MIDI performance in a tracker including modulation and pitchbending? How do you even program pitchbending in a tracker? How do you program swing? Or polyrhythms? And where are all the Rock/Metal/Jazz/Classic compositions made with trackers, with varying BPM and a large dynamic range? Why does everything made with a tracker sounds like it has been made with a tracker?

There's at least one major producer out there who didn't know how to set or turn off the auto-quantize in his MPC. Every track was rigidly quantized to 16th notes. He was more successful than any of us.

paul hardcastle?

But that was back when he was N..n..n..n..nineteen…

[VOODOO U]

Alright! I do have Renoise, also the plugin.

Redux being equivalent ro Renoise would make me a very happy man.

[audiojunkie]

Still waiting for a logical argument why trackers can be considered to be on par with all the "big" DAWs. I would also like to hear something made with a tracker that does not sound like tracker music.

This?

That’s amazing! I hadn’t heard that one before.

[Michael L]

Still waiting for a logical argument why trackers can be considered to be on par with all the "big" DAWs. I would also like to hear something made with a tracker that does not sound like tracker music.

I’m still waiting for a logical argument why artists need to justify ANY reason for any tool they decide to use in their art.

Maybe so much music sounds the same because everyone is using the same few tools?

Its Time for Trackers!

[VOODOO U]

There’s even an artist that uses his own crap to paint his paintings

Juat like KVRists use their own crap to make music.

Yep....I'll grab me coat.

[WackyZoundz]

This has to be one of the most awkward comparisons I've seen in a day or so.

"I have no arguments so I just call everything weird/awkward/etc."

DAWs in the sense you're using the term for, are MIDI and audio recording devices, hardly instruments at all.

They include the instruments/functions necessary to create tracker sound. But trackers don't include the functions to create non-tracker sound. Obviously.

If you're arguing that tracker music isn't good music, that's all you.

If you would actually read what I wrote instead of just waiting to throw the next bogus argument at me to "win" you would have read that I was talking about the sound, not the music. You can create (at least theoretically) complex music with trackers but the sound is very limited. That's why you have to trick and adapt the music itself. That limited sound is okay if you go for that oldschool lo-fi vibe (as I already wrote). But you can't go beyond that. Is it really that hard to understand that you can drive a car as slow as a bike but a bike never as fast as a car? Just to make sure: The bike stands for trackers, the car for "big" DAWs.

[VOODOO U]

Is it really that hard to understand that you can drive a car as slow as a bike but a bike never as fast as a car?

Put a motor on the bike.

[audiojunkie]

Question: How do you record a live MIDI performance in a tracker including modulation and pitchbending? How do you even program pitchbending in a tracker? How do you program swing? Or polyrhythms? And where are all the Rock/Metal/Jazz/Classic compositions made with trackers, with varying BPM and a large dynamic range? Why does everything made with a tracker sounds like it has been made with a tracker?

Trackers have a long history with varying capabilities like all music based composition based software. Trackers require a different approach and skill set / discipline to master. There is no shortcuts to learning them, it's something you will have to learn yourself pretty much. It's pretty much like programming and mastering the commands in which control the sounds or midi data you wish to create whilst also in the terms of samples, crafting how samples are shaped and looped. Trackers to those who master the art in using them are no slower to compose with than modern conventional DAWs like Cubase for example. You can program in step-time or real-time record mode should you wish to.

Octamed Sound Studio on the Amiga was the best and most complete tracker, which I used for few years before I moved onto different hardware to create music. Renoise is it's modern successor.

This is exactly why I never got into trackers. It seemed to hard to have to memorize all of the numerical command codes. I preferred piano rolls. That said, I also had great respect for those who were successful with them. They had more than talent—they had a deep intelligence and skill, and some of those demos showed it.

It reminds me of David Crosby (who I was lucky enough to meet), who had struck up a friendship with this young kid that was known for creating videos where he would show himself playing or singing each instrument perfectly in time. Crosby respected the talent and skill required to pull that off. He once, when he saw one of this kid’s latest productions and said, That’s just like a dog licking his balls because he can!” I wish I could remember that kid’s name—his art was quite impressive!

My point is this… the demo scene, and some of the incredible art that came from it required such incredible talent, that some of the output was really showing off how incredibly talented they are—just like that kid that was friends with David Crosby.

[audiojunkie]

I have never seen tracker software in a commercial studio, for good reasons.

1. You've never been in a commercial studio.

It's 2024. Going on Youtube and watching someone record a vid in their commercial studio equals, "I've now officially been in a commercial studio."
It's like A.I. users; they are now officially "musicians".

So it's another case of being too lazy

Ok, tip number two, try getting a linux system to work. Then go back to using a tracker. It'll be like chocolate ice-cream topped with whipped cream.

False. Trackers are harder, LOL!

[WackyZoundz]

So still no logical argument what makes trackers as good or even better at anything than "big" DAWs. Still no example of tracker music that does not have that typical lo-fi tracker sound we all know from the demo scene, only covering a small range of genres and styles.

[THE INTRANCER]

No point wasting your time

You of all people talking about not wasting time with all those stupid polls and threads you post.

It's better than wasting time with ignorant people who have no idea what they are talking about.

[audiojunkie]

I have never seen tracker software in a commercial studio, for good reasons.

1. You've never been in a commercial studio.

It's 2024. Going on Youtube and watching someone record a vid in their commercial studio equals, "I've now officially been in a commercial studio."
It's like A.I. users; they are now officially "musicians".

So it's another case of being too lazy

Ok, tip number two, try getting a linux system to work. Then go back to using a tracker. It'll be like chocolate ice-cream topped with whipped cream.

heh that one might happen since I've not really much better to do with my TPM-less windoze
10 machine. Also, backgound was in linux/unix/Irix I used to be a big slackware fan myself,
but its been some years. I got into gaming which required windoze pretty much.

Not that I have any problem with someone using Linux (I use Linux for everything, including music making), but you might find it useful to know that your system can probably use Windows 11 by bypassing the normal Windows 11 requirements:

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/byp ... equirement

[VOODOO U]

False. Trackers are harder, LOL!

Especially IE in Renoise when you start using effect commands.
Or having to memorize all the keystrokes for on the fly performance.

No point wasting your time

You of all people talking about not wasting time with all those stupid polls and threads you post.

It's better than wasting time with ignorant people who have no idea what they are talking about.

If you are in disagreement with me in any way big or small, I am doing the right thing.

[Jac459]

So still no logical argument what makes trackers as good or even better at anything than "big" DAWs. Still no example of tracker music that does not have that typical lo-fi tracker sound we all know from the demo scene, only covering a small range of genres and styles.

You are twisting the discussion in order to try to not lose the argument.

Nobody at no moment said here that trackers do the same than modern daws (except the one off mention of renoise).

What everybody tries to tell you is that trackers are not toys as you said but instruments that you can use to do great music.

As Norman Cook is using less powerfull and more limited tools that he knows very well to make great music. That doesn't make him less pro than "Fred again".

[pekbro]

Not that I have any problem with someone using Linux (I use Linux for everything, including music making), but you might find it useful to know that your system can probably use Windows 11 by bypassing the normal Windows 11 requirements:

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/byp ... equirement

Thanks, I knew that, tho I never actually looked into it. I have a modest win 11 machine,
so it's not a big deal. Can't really play too many games on the win 10 pc anyway since I
bought a new TV with too much resolution for it to be able to play many games lol. Got
my buddies PS4 Pro for cheap so it's console time for me when it comes to gaming.

I am wondering how rigid the distro requirements are for things like Bitwig and Renoise,
obviously they don't distribute the src code. It used to be that you could build things from
src when your distro was not supported by the correct pkg manager or whatever.

And in regard to Arch linux it used to break things a lot due to being too bleeding edge.

I used to spend tons of hours building things like the early enlightenment window manager
on distros where it wasn't widely used (which was almost all of them at the time).
The desktop customization was one of my fav things about linux and I tended to prefer
the exotic and complicated stuff over user friendly systems like KDE or Gnome.