KVR Audio

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:27 am

No i am saying that in the past I have used warez & that i now use a small selection of applications - a combination of free & paid for & also have a stack of old software that i have bought in the past which i no longer use. Perhaps i phrased what I said in the wrong manner, perhaps you read it wrong, perhaps a combination of the two. The important phrase here is in the past as oppossed to 'have and currently use'. I also made reference to the fact that there is 'an abundance of high quality freeware, donationware & just plain silly cheap stuff that's extremely high quality' which further negates the need for people to resort to using warez. Am i explaining myself a little more clearly now? I would hope so, as one of the reasons I post so rarely on boards such as this is that there is a tendency for people to takes things out of context, misread &/or misconstrue what is posted - leading to slagging matches & comments such as 'why dont you just leave and never comeback cause people like you are not wanted here'

hitman8081 · Post by **hitman8081** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:55 am

diverdee wrote:No i am saying that in the past I have used warez & that i now use a small selection of applications - a combination of free & paid for & also have a stack of old software that i have bought in the past which i no longer use. Perhaps i phrased what I said in the wrong manner, perhaps you read it wrong, perhaps a combination of the two. The important phrase here is in the past as oppossed to 'have and currently use'. I also made reference to the fact that there is 'an abundance of high quality freeware, donationware & just plain silly cheap stuff that's extremely high quality' which further negates the need for people to resort to using warez. Am i explaining myself a little more clearly now? I would hope so, as one of the reasons I post so rarely on boards such as this is that there is a tendency for people to takes things out of context, misread &/or misconstrue what is posted - leading to slagging matches & comments such as 'why dont you just leave and never comeback cause people like you are not wanted here'

ok ok

i/we dont start slagging matches because we want to start trouble its just that everybody hates warez here including myself and when even the word is mentioned it tends to provoke alot of feelings in people including me. it was just an honest misunderstanding

RoyNoahJones · Post by **RoyNoahJones** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:33 am

This kind of topic comes back very often.

Well, there can be several sides of the story, but there's only one truth : what's wrong is wrong. only the owners of the intellectual rights have the right to decide the level of their damages and allow some users to use their work under certain circumstances, NOBODY ELSE.

That being said, everyone should be aware of what they're doing when using cracked software, this is not something granted,normal or worse : cool. The problem is not the piracy, it's the people using them. As someone said here, no matter how low the price is, some people will feel cooler by stealing it. That's a problem of education,values, conscience.

If someone is serious about his/her work, he/she consider quitting the amateur league by doing some proper job and be able to buy the tools they use , in other words : get a professional attitude.

Unless they'll find cool that : People download their music for free, records company won't give them any money because some people finds cooler to get some music for free, they won't make marketing investments to bring them to fame because it costs money, and money is what they don't have because people don't buy...etc etc etc etc. And in this scheme : what was the benefit of using cracked versions in the first place ?.

Respect your work by taking the RIGHT decisions at the RIGHT time, do what you have to do, respect somebody else's work, and your work will be on a path to respect.

cheers

pooshka · Post by **pooshka** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:44 am

what i think would be interesting topics to discuss are...

1. do people who oppose warez music software also oppose/do not use all kinds of warez? e.g. some people may own/only purchase legit copies of music softwares, but do these people also own/purchase ALL their other softwares legitimately? (e.g. MS products - Windows, Office, etc; computer games, utilities - graphic, system maintenance, etc)

2. do people view 'warez' in software differently from illegal MP3 download or copying movies?

3. do people feel different about making a compilation CD/cassette of music to give to a friend and making a compilation CD/DVD of music softwares to give to a friend?

4. do people feel different about downloading MP3s of commercial music illegitimately off the web and borrowing & copying music contained in CD/Vinyl/DVD from a friend?

5. do people feel different about someone using warez music software purely personal pleasure/hobby and someone who use warez software for commercial gains/to 'break into' music industry?

dunholy · Post by **dunholy** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:21 am

I would like to add a #6 based on the POV of HItman and CPTGONE

Is people aware of the "bigger picture" where piracy and warez falls? Obviously I´m talking about the assymetry of economy and technology access between different countries/regions. Say, would you blame a (potentially) talented producer from Cuba (I might be wrong but I think most USA developers DO NOT distribute their stuff over this and some other "non-democratic" countries), with no resources but a crappy PC for using Warez at least as a way to practice and polish his skills? This of course brings the subject of the elitistic nature of making and producing music. "There are certain hobbies that are denied to certain people (those who can´t afford them)" someone said. Warez probably started against that harsh -yet completely valid in the current capitalistic world system- way of thinking.

What if the Cuban guy is much more talented than you even when he only owns a crappy harpsichord? Common sense (not moral) would tell u that he would get the most out of those expensive tools he CANT afford.

Yes: the bigger picture is all about Money, Power, International Politics & Cultural Exchange.

Don´t get me wrong: it IS stealing. But we sure should focus on the reasons underneath the behaviours, shouldnt we?

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:24 am

pooshka wrote:what i think would be interesting topics to discuss are...

1. do people who oppose warez music software also oppose/do not use all kinds of warez? e.g. some people may own/only purchase legit copies of music softwares, but do these people also own/purchase ALL their other softwares legitimately? (e.g. MS products - Windows, Office, etc; computer games, utilities - graphic, system maintenance, etc)

2. do people view 'warez' in software differently from illegal MP3 download or copying movies?

3. do people feel different about making a compilation CD/cassette of music to give to a friend and making a compilation CD/DVD of music softwares to give to a friend?

4. do people feel different about downloading MP3s of commercial music illegitimately off the web and borrowing & copying music contained in CD/Vinyl/DVD from a friend?

5. do people feel different about someone using warez music software purely personal pleasure/hobby and someone who use warez software for commercial gains/to 'break into' music industry?

1. EVERYTHING on my machine is legit. Yes, Windows and Office also.

2. Nope. Stealing is stealing.

3. If my friend wants to have my CD, I let him borrow it. But at that time, HE has the rights to it. I do copy my own music for my friends. Does that count?

4. The only software I have for downloading is iTunes and Media Player. Both require payment to get songs.

5. Stealing is stealing.

Lunch Money took the words out of my mouth on a couple things. The man in Africa(or wherever) who "can't afford" Cubase, probably can't afford a computer to run it on. And if they can afford the internet connection to download it, they can afford to find freeware instead.

Also, it doesn't matter if you are using it for hobby or career. Besides, if you are a hobbyist, you can probably do without the latest Logic or Cubase. No excuse. So you weren't going to buy it anyway, and the developer didn't miss anything? Well, wrong. Law is law. If you can't afford it, you don't get it. Period.

And, if you claim you're using it as demos, it's still wrong. You're breaking the license agreement. It doesn't matter if you one day plan on paying. It's still wrong.

Ya know, I'm not trying to get on anyone's back here. And I'm far from perfect(but I don't use illegal software). So I can't judge anyone here on a personal level. But I used to use all these excuses. I told myself that when I started making money from it, I would pay for it. I was kidding myself. It's amazing to see what I came up with to justify my wrong.

Those who use cracked software can make their own bed, but one day they will lay in it. They will be ripped off, by someone using the same excuses as they are, and they will see that it wasn't so great after all.

If a developer wants to give something away, that's their choice. Then it's free for the taking. But those who charge for their software may be putting food on the table for their family with the sales they make. By buying their software, you contribute, with the developer's thanks. If you steal their software, no matter what your excuse, you are not contributing, and are pretty much saying, "Screw you sucka, all your hard work and I didn't pay a dime."

As I said, I don't have to live with you. Only you have to live with what you've done. My conscience is clear when I lay my head down at night.........

Koolkeys

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:29 am

Oh, and by the way:

It's ME and others who PAY for the software that create the funds to the developers to allow them to make the software you steal. I don't feel like supporting your excuse. In essence, you are stealing from us also. Thanks a freakin lot.

Koolkeys

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:31 am

Oh, I was talking to an instructor today, and they mentioned that the problem is much larger than most realize. He said that MOST of the studios he's worked in here in Nashville, including the MAJOR labels, run quite a bit of illegal software. This instructor heppened to be one who spoke out against it, but I do have reason to believe that not all the instructors do the right thing.

Still doens't make it right.

Koolkeys

pooshka · Post by **pooshka** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:47 am

cool. these are kinds of answers I was looking for. i'm just really interested in this issue and see what people think about use of cracked music software and how people consider it at same level/distinguish it from other things such as other copy right issues (mp3, etc) and other kinds of crack software (games, MS products & etc).

funkadil · Post by **funkadil** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:07 am

whether it is illegal or not is out of the question. But if it is morally right it means your intentions were not of harm. I Downloaded an illeagal copy of fruityloops(didn't even know what it was so I wasn't trying to screw people out of profit cause I never would have bought it otherwise) just out of interest which otherwise I would have never even have started producing. Sorry for the unorganized thoughts.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:24 am

While I can see your point, it all comes down to what is legal and what is not.

As much as I'd hate to say it, the morality is not what matters. People do immoral things all the time. It's not against the law. But if they do break a law, they get punished.

I'll take your example of downloading FL. You didn't know what it was. Well, what if I went to a grocery store, saw some pickled onions, didn't know what they were, so I took a can. I got home and realized that I LOVE PICKLED ONIONS!!!!! Now, they become my favorite food(not in real life, they are disgusting). So I start buying more and more. Well, if I didn't steal the first can, I would have never given the company my business, right? Well, maybe. But it doesn't make the original stolen can right. I should have asked for a sample(aka, demo). If there was none available, then I must pay if I want to try that can.

Almost every peice of software released today has a demo of some sort. Now, if the demo is too limited, that's the companies fault, and they lose the business as a result.

So justifying this with morality just can't be done. It's the law, and there's nothing more to say. It may seem like I'm tring to take the high groung on this, but I'm not. I mean no personal offense to anyone here. And I know that some people REALLY do feel they are doing nothing wrong. But it doesn't make it right.

Koolkeys

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:26 am

funkadil wrote:whether it is illegal or not is out of the question. But if it is morally right it means your intentions were not of harm. I Downloaded an illeagal copy of fruityloops(didn't even know what it was so I wasn't trying to screw people out of profit cause I never would have bought it otherwise) just out of interest which otherwise I would have never even have started producing. Sorry for the unorganized thoughts.

funkadil,
My last post, while in response to yours, was not meant to put you down. So please don't take it this way. I come in peace!

Koolkeys

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:36 am

You know, I will bet that the vast majority of people who use warez (and who are not professional music criminals) use them because they don't know about all of the free and cheap stuff out there.

You music tech fanatics should remember that not everyone knows the rules of this highly specialized world. Most of the people here are very polite. But there are some who are less so, and I really don't think that their attitude does anything to ameliorate the problem of software theft.

Every one can be made fun of for their ignorance. If you know music, you might not understand audio. If you understand audio, you might not understand economics. If you understand economics you might not understand music...ad infinitum.

It is totally natural to condescend to those whose understanding of our special "thing" seems lacking. And if they seem morally obtuse as well, then...well...GIT 'EM!!!!

Totally natural... but is it really likely to discourage theft???

Be nice to the ignorant. Given the chance, most people will go for the "free, cheap, and legal" plan. They just need to be told about it.

funkadil · Post by **funkadil** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:56 am

oh yeah, and besides that I'm really young and don't have a job and I'm still in school. Not looking to make money, not professional, etc.
-Oh, and I dont take offense, The difference I see is that software really isn't a material product, Its not like I went into a store and took the CD or anything like that, Its not like their losing money because I never would have bought. It is like MP3s of music I never would have bought, but after listening I realized "wow, I actually enjoy this music" and go buy the album at a store so I can listen and really become a fan and own the albums.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:08 am

Again, the lack of funds doesn't make it right. You don't have to download an MP3 any more just to hear it. You can sample almost anything out there, between Amazon, iTunes, etc. If you like it, you can buy it. If you don't, then you never took anything anyway, so you're fine.

As it was said already in this thread. Sometimes you just can't have something you want. If you can't afford something, you don't get it. When I was young, there are many things I wanted. But I was a kid, and didn't have any money. But that didn't give me the right to take it without paying. The law doesn't allow for any excuses. Simple as that. Justify it how you want morally, it's still wrong legally. There are holes in every argument that says otherwise. Facts are facts.

Also, I purposely don't try to be mean. I agree with herodotus in that some people really don't know. Hey, I didn't know. That's why I try to be polite and not flame someone because they may not see. But once you know, you can't claim ignorance any more. That's what I hope to accomplish when I comment on this. Maybe somebody will figure out that there isn't a need for doing this.

Koolkeys

More people do this than I thought.....