Simple tests to compare M:M and MMV

[Man-Machine]

Ok, here it is. The 1st MMV, 2nd M:M and 3rd Minimax

I might do some sweeps later tonight and bring them in tomorrow...

[RAYA]

To my ears sounds so different that doesnt seems to be the same settings.

[REwire]

That Clinches it! My order for MM is in. Last night though I did a comparison of MMV and MM in their most awesome mode - 2 saws and a Pulse on full, Filter opened up and Detuning up. The MM had a heavy warm fullness that reminded me of my analog synths (Roland and Oberheim) while the MMV had that higher tinny character more akin to the Vanguard and z3ta+ (these all get along together in a mix though).

I don't care what a Minimoog sounds like, but I know and like Analog and that's really what these manufacturers are out to nail. So far only The Legacy Collection (MS-20 and Polysix), MM and Imposcar have got it close.

Off topic, I hope none of you are doing any critical VSTi testing through Soundblaster cards or their like. I'm using an RME system clocked by Apogee converters so if you run a Analog Synth and a VSTi side by side they have to be on equal footing.

Dan

[Man-Machine]

Because it's just nit-picking based on preference and other bias. If you want to indulge in pseudo-science then be my guest but don't forget that this is mainly a site for musicians who use MM and MMV. After all who do you think these synths are designed for? My opinion is as valid as yours. But do carry on old chap...

Hmmm...oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers pseudo-science huh?!

"mainly" for musicians... so I guess that could include us softsynth developers, sound designers or sound techies then

Buddy, this the last time I'll bother. If you don't like the show, stop whining and just change the channel

[Man-Machine]

I don't care what a Minimoog sounds like, but I know and like Analog and that's really what these manufacturers are out to nail. So far only The Legacy Collection (MS-20 and Polysix), MM and Imposcar have got it close.

Dan

I'm with you on that list but don't forget to add the TimeWarp 2600. You'll see when that becomes available as VSTi I wish the Creamware synthesziers could also be available natively. You guys would be very impressed and I could retire my DSP card

[seamoss]

is so f**king funny how many people have a problem with this thread...yet keep coming here, commenting on it.

please, take a hike if you are not interested. there are PLENTY of people who like reading and comparing.


thanks guys for the thread. hopefully, you can get some more files up......possibly a real mini as well.

[rouge]

Krim, I really like your music and I like other people's music at KVR. I wouldn't get drawn into this silly discussion because it just takes time away from creating music. (He says having got drawn in. )

I don't care if people make music using a washboard and some pots and pans as long as it sounds interesting. I really don't believe that most people here give two turds about whether the MM sounds more authentic than MMV. It's splitting hairs. As long as they sound good (and they both do) that's all that matters IMO. It seems to me that these types of threads turn into a promotional arena for devs and their fanboys trying to slag the opposition. So I say leave them to it.

I just hope no one from KVR will spend less than a moment on this petty arguement. I hope they'll carry on enjoying what both synths have to offer and make cool music instead.

Well, I guess you have to be reminded that not everybody here is a musician or use synthesizers for creating music. Some are engineers or sound designers and make use of synthesizers for other purposes other than music like sound effects for movie for example. Such technical aspects can be very important. This is not a competition thread for musicians. We're just looking for these synths weeknesses and strengths and see what they can and/or cannot do.

Like I said before, if this thread is not of your interest why even bother post or even read it? Let's stay on topic here.

Thank you ! You speak the truth

[Red_Force]

Red Force -

I would like to see you put your money where your mouth is.

If you are so sure this is the superior synth, let's hear a three way between Moog analog wav files, Minmonsta wav files and Minimoog V wav files.

Im sure you guys have the ways and means to do this.

We did that for ages with a beta of M:M and published it. We didn't have a Minimax at that time but we did have a Minimoog, which is even better .

All of this have been posted here on February 2004
http://www.melohman.com/

Plum_Force post inserted below with links to the sounds :

... There is just a single played note, no melody or special effect here. First comes the original Minimoog, then Minimonster and for the comparison, the famous Minimoog V from Arturia. The second note has the same settings, excepted that Filter Emphasis (resonance) is tuned to the maximum (self-oscillation). Beware, this second sound is quite harsh.

Settings are the same for the three synthesisers, with minor difference because of the difficulty to obtain exact knob adjustment (Minimonster hasn't its graphic interface yet).

Minimonster filter FM

Tech specs:

* 3 oscillators set to the same pitch approximatively, Square / Saw / Tri, max. vol.
* VCF cutoff frequency around 2000 Hz.
* VCF emphasis to 50% and 100% on the original Minimoog.
* VCF Frequency Modulation with Oscillator 3, mod. wheel set to the maximum.

And now for the filter geek, a comparison of different settings. Again, notes are grouped by 3, in the order Minimoog / Minimonster / Minimoog V. The emphasis increases for each triplet. However for the latest one (maximum emphasis), it wasn't possible to obtain the setting with Minimoog V. Whereas Minimonster is able to go even further in resonance fundamentalism.
Minimonster filter sweep

Tech specs:

* 1 oscillator, square wave, maximum volume
* VCF cutoff frequency around 95 Hz, maximum envelope contour.

[electro]

Ok, I made 3 wave files from the 3 softsynths. They were all recorded at the same time in Cubase with the same peak but normalized individually afterwards. I used the default patch for both synths and tried to match the sound on the Minimax. It's just a long held note at first C3 then C2. The files are 16 bit/44 Khz and about 1MB each. Who wants to host them?

We could do that, as long as it's done fairly
You can PM me if you want to.

To do it fairly the files have to be normalized via RMS instead of peak normalization. Wavelab does this type of normalization.

[Man-Machine]

I did actually used the normalize function in Wavelab. The files are good

Have you looked at these files with a spectrum analyzer? I think this is a better tool to look for bass response than just checking loudness. I also used the tool from Wavelab. I have a screenshot if someone wants to host it.

Nice filter tests Red_Force...

[munchkin]

Because it's just nit-picking based on preference and other bias. If you want to indulge in pseudo-science then be my guest but don't forget that this is mainly a site for musicians who use MM and MMV. After all who do you think these synths are designed for? My opinion is as valid as yours. But do carry on old chap...

Hmmm...oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers pseudo-science huh?!

"mainly" for musicians... so I guess that could include us softsynth developers, sound designers or sound techies then

Buddy, this the last time I'll bother. If you don't like the show, stop whining and just change the channel

Ok, let's see this scientific evidence. What bit are you objecting to:

1. That I don't agree that there's a significant difference?

or:

2. That I have an opinion that's different from yours and I'm disagreeing with you?

Considering this is a thread comparing these synths I would say that it's pertinent to expect some science in all this otherwise it's just personal opinion. I just think it's the emporers new clothes and if you're defensive about my opinion (or with any one who doesn't agree with you) then that's down to you.

[Man-Machine]

All we're trying to do here (or at least me) is to look at facts not opinions. Of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion on things like practicality, GUI and other subjected stuff but that's for another thread. By checking things like frequency response we know for a fact, not opinion, how well a synth reach certain frequencies and sit on a mix. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. There are other things that can also measured and shown by facts not opinions like oscillator waveshapes, envelope times and other behaviors. This is information some people want and what this thread is all about...

By the way, does anybody know of a good realtime VST spectrum analyzer effect? I couldn't get the one in Cubase to work realtime...

[Red_Force]

To do it fairly the files have to be normalized via RMS instead of peak normalization. Wavelab does this type of normalization.

Only if you run the synth into a compressor while producing, which is definitively not a must.

Anyway this will be to M:M advantages on those samples, so it's OK

BTW the tool mainly use for analysis on our side is not Wavelab but Cool Edit Pr... oups, Adobe blabla whatever. It has so much more analaysis possibilities...

[kybernaut]

Can you give us tips for getting more bass out the Monster or provide us with your own bass tweaked presets for us? I'm gonna try some of your settings when I come home tonight.

During my own comparisons between Minimax and the Minimonsta, I think I found the reason for this: Minmonsta's mixer saturates WAY more early than Minimax. Along with this comes a certain phase cancellation on the Minimonsta, especially when all mixer pots are set to maximum. Just back off the mixer levels and you have a more consistent bass response.

In general, Minimonsta behaves very differently when set to the same knob positions than Minimax. On the Monsta, the cutoff closes further, self-oscillation starts earlier and is louder, envelopes are faster (unfortunately they are not calculated at a high enough rate, so you can't really take advantage of its speed --> see my #6 example)...


kybernaut

[Kriminal]

Ok, here it is. The 1st MMV, 2nd M:M and 3rd Minimax

Assuming i didnt swap themn round







dont worry, i didnt