Ok, an anti mac rant. sorry, but this pissed me off (doom3)

[jones-y]

My opinion is that many musicians/artists are ludites at heart and Apple's clever marketing has convinced them that Macs are easier, more stable and cooler to use than PCs. This may have been true a few years ago but the gap has closed.

Easier? I'd say so, even today. Just chuck that lame ass mouse first

More stable? I'd say so. Although if you know your way around, a PC can be just as stable (but that's the problem in itself, its easier to know your way around a Mac, because the Mac OS doesn't hide anything)

Cooler? Who gives a flying frig? I'm a substance over style guy.

[jones-y]

But this is a stupid argument. Its all about what you like, forget what the other person is using, it doesn't matter!!

Now that's good advice.

[John Vulich]

Now I never let that make up my mind. What has made up my mind are the experiences I have had with Mac's - I find them clunky, hard to work with in terms of ergonomics, and generally just not user friendly for me.

I feel the same way. I suppose it's how your brain is wired. I just can't stand how you can't simply maximize a window on the Mac to fill the whole display. I've played with Digital Performer a lot on a friend's Mac and it has all these floating windows that are opened all over the desktop. It really f**ks my head up to have to deal with a bunch os scattered little windows. I prefer the Windows method of having a single workspace, in any given app, and being able to maximize a window by simply double clicking it's caption bar.

[jones-y]

I prefer

And that's perfectly fine.

[.jon]

Do yourself a favor. Download Cocktail, buy TTP4, do some system maintenance, and get a USB mouse. Spend a couple troubleshooting hours on a saturday afternoon, and $100 bucks of your company's money. You'll be happy you did. (BTW you can PM me, if you need any troubleshooting tips)

My Mac crashes once a century. Apps crash, but the OS never goes down. And its been that way since 10.2.

Thanks for the tips, I'll talk to the guy who owns the edit... not my company's money.

That's actually something people rarely talk about - maybe you need to fiddle a bit with Macs as well to keep them going and to take most out of them.

BTW, my Windows PC crashes also only once a century... and it's never the OS - W2K . Cubase used to crash a lot, Tracktion never, eXT now and then so usually it's the apps on both sides.

[John Vulich]

Easier? I'd say so, even today. Just chuck that lame ass mouse first

What? I just don't get the single mouse button on a Mac (I know you can get a multi button mouse for a Mac but the default is a single button). What the hell is supposed to be better about using a single button mouse? You still have a context menu on a Mac but you need to access it by using a key combination. On a PC you just use the left mouse button. Ultimately using a keyboard, with shortcut commands, is the fastest way to interface with a computer anyway. The Mac is the antitesis of this methedology.

Check out this well written essay The Anti-Mac Interface...

We should state at the outset that we are devoted fans of the Macintosh human interface and frequent users of Macintosh computers. Our purpose is not to argue that the Macintosh human interface guidelines are bad principles, but rather to explore alternative approaches to computer interfaces. The Anti-Mac interface is not intended to be hostile to the Macintosh, only different. In fact, human interface designers at Apple and elsewhere have already incorporated some of the Anti-Mac features into the Macintosh desktop and applications. The Macintosh was designed to be "the computer for the rest of us" and succeeded well enough that it became, as Alan Kay once said, "the first personal computer good enough to be criticized." This article should be taken in the same spirit. The Macintosh was designed under a number of constraints, including:

• It needed to sell to "naive users," that is, users without any previous computer experience.
• It was targeted at a narrow range of applications (mostly office work, though entertainment and multimedia applications have been added later in ways that sometimes break slightly with the standard interface).
• It controlled relatively weak computational resources (originally a non-networked computer with 128KB RAM, a 400KB storage device, and a dot-matrix printer).
• It was supported by highly impoverished communication channels between the user and the computer (initially a small black-and-white screen with poor audio output, no audio input, and no other sensors than the keyboard and a one-button mouse).
• It was a standalone machine that at most was connected to a printer.

These constraints have all been relaxed somewhat during the 12 years since the introduction of the Macintosh, but we will explore what might happen if they were to be eliminated completely.

More stable? I'd say so. Although if you know your way around, a PC can be just as stable (but that's the problem in itself, its easier to know your way around a Mac, because the Mac OS doesn't hide anything)

Sorry but this is utter and complete bullshit. This may have been true during the OS9/Win 98 days but not now. In fact I think that Win XP is probably more stable than OSX. If there is any difference in stabilty I believe at this point it is negligible either way.

Look... if you like using a Mac that's fine. Just don't try and justify it by making absurd statements.

[jones-y]

Thanks for the tips, I'll talk to the guy who owns the edit... not my company's money.

There's plenty of Mac troubleshooting sites out there. You can start with macfixit.com Also for a more audio-oriented perspective on Mac troubleshooting, have a look at osxaudio.com , in their Mac OS X Forum.

That's actually something people rarely talk about - maybe you need to fiddle a bit with Macs as well to keep them going and to take most out of them.

Well, it is very discussed, but you won't find much of it on a PC oriented BB. Again, have a look at those sites above.

As a matter of fact, many (including myself) have a very strict maintenance regimen, which, when adhered to, virtually eliminates crashes, degradation of performance, and most minor headaches. Check here and here for some good audio-centric mac maintenance advice.

BTW, my Windows PC crashes also only once a century... and it's never the OS - W2K . Cubase used to crash a lot, Tracktion never, eXT now and then so usually it's the apps on both sides.

Yep. If the OS is properly maintained, it should not be the cause of most computer problems. Mac or PC.

[jones-y]

Ultimately using a keyboard, with shortcut commands, is the fastest way to interface with a computer anyway. The Mac is the antitesis of this methedology.

Oh come on John, you gotta be kidding me. The Mac OS is full of key commands.

Check out this well written essay The Anti-Mac Interface...

We should state at the outset that we are devoted fans of the Macintosh human interface and frequent users of Macintosh computers. Our purpose is not to argue that the Macintosh human interface guidelines are bad principles, but rather to explore alternative approaches to computer interfaces. The Anti-Mac interface is not intended to be hostile to the Macintosh, only different. In fact, human interface designers at Apple and elsewhere have already incorporated some of the Anti-Mac features into the Macintosh desktop and applications. The Macintosh was designed to be "the computer for the rest of us" and succeeded well enough that it became, as Alan Kay once said, "the first personal computer good enough to be criticized." This article should be taken in the same spirit. The Macintosh was designed under a number of constraints, including:

• It needed to sell to "naive users," that is, users without any previous computer experience.
• It was targeted at a narrow range of applications (mostly office work, though entertainment and multimedia applications have been added later in ways that sometimes break slightly with the standard interface).
• It controlled relatively weak computational resources (originally a non-networked computer with 128KB RAM, a 400KB storage device, and a dot-matrix printer).
• It was supported by highly impoverished communication channels between the user and the computer (initially a small black-and-white screen with poor audio output, no audio input, and no other sensors than the keyboard and a one-button mouse).
• It was a standalone machine that at most was connected to a printer.

These constraints have all been relaxed somewhat during the 12 years since the introduction of the Macintosh, but we will explore what might happen if they were to be eliminated completely.

Okay, maybe ten years ago when this was written...

More stable? I'd say so. Although if you know your way around, a PC can be just as stable (but that's the problem in itself, its easier to know your way around a Mac, because the Mac OS doesn't hide anything)

Sorry but this is utter and complete bullshit. This may have been true during the OS9/Win 98 days but not now. In fact I think that Win XP is probably more stable than OSX. If there is any difference in stabilty I believe at this point it is negligible either way.

Well I could point out Windows' virus/trojan/spyware/browser hijack vulnerabilities, but that's beside the point.

My point is: If a Mac OS machine goes haywire, and a Windows machine goes haywire, which one is easier to fix? Which is easier to maintain. From my experience, it'd be the Mac. And I'm not inexperienced.

And this also takes into account the seven year head start that M$ has over Apple WRT their latest OSes. Yeah, The NT kernel is much younger. But still compare the difference between Win98 and NT to the gulf between OS 9 and OS X.

Look... if you like using a Mac that's fine. Just don't try and justify it by making absurd statements.

1. I feel no need to justify anything.

2. Your opinion is that my statements are absurd. Does that mean my statements are absurd?

3. You obviously haven't been carefully reading my posts, because you obviously missed a whole lot in coming to those two conclusions.

[jones-y]

And BTW, OS 9 was crap, IMO. It was about as stable as Win98.

[CskaTorpedo]

LOL! Really pissed you guys of there.

Yes. Call me childish and then tell me to f**k off. There's a paradox for you right there.

Don't use my spelling to judge my competence as I'm not from the states (or UK). Guess alot of you proff. americans can only speak one language. (Oh yeah, and now some guy who speaks french, spanish etc. blahblah will come and save your ass. )

Don't give me that Dreamworks crap as it has nothing to do with "real world". They have special deals going on with HP, and that is not reflecting how the music biz is working in generel.

This was meant as a friendly tease, maybe I've should have added a smilie. But according to your reaction you guys are really hurt. Truth hurts?

You guys are using the F-word alot aren't you?

I read through all your posts and I am pretty sure you live in an English speaking country, probably the United States, or UK, shall I prove it?

Okay that sounds like fun!

But first let me tell you about myself, I am a very large lumber jack who likes tropical fruit drinks, and walks on the beach, I am a capricorn and am fiercly independant. Using my psychic powers I peered into your very soul and this is what I found....

First lets dissect your message here so I will be able to compare it to others when the time comes.

Don't give me that Dreamworks crap as it has nothing to do with "real world". They have special deals going on with HP, and that is not reflecting how the music biz is working in generel.

Note how you left off "the" before "real world", and misspelled general. (common mistake amongst children to confuse the soft ah sound of "a" for the eh sound of e.)

This was meant as a friendly tease, maybe I've should have added a smilie. But according to your reaction you guys are really hurt. Truth hurts?

Again left off "the" before a common idiom ie. "the truth hurts" (You also misspelled Smiley, which could be a common spelling mistake for middle school students in the US.)

There's a paradox for you right there.

Here's a good American idiom for you, There's... for you. Thats... for you.

But according to your reaction

Another great idiom, "but according to".

so I dug a little deeper, what did I find?

"This huge thing is CHEAP compared to what I gave for sound modules back in the day. Stop whining. Huge soundsets are the future like it or not. I like!"

Here's a quote from a prior post u had

"back in the day"
"... are the future!"
"like it or not."

Again great idioms for an ESL participant, I really think you got your money out of those English classes you took. Actually reading over a lot of your old posts, there are very few times you left off words, or made bad spelling mistakes. I am very impressed.

by no means am I infering that you are a middle school student from wyoming with bad grades, I just wanted to congratulate you on your amazing abillity to conqure the most technical and nonsensical idioms America has to offer. That is a feat that takes most ESL students 5 to 10 years in an English speaking country to use in spoken conversation. Or at least a good 10 years of regular practice with a native English speaker.

Anyway what were we flaming again? Was it macs? Oh yea they suck... PC PC PC! Porn is better on PC!

Oh, and I just listened to all your music, and it sucked.

[jones-y]

@CskaTorpedo

Good God your're bored, huh?

So what is it, early morning there in Asia?

[CskaTorpedo]

yup 7:32am

[jones-y]

[CskaTorpedo]

There is no excoose for bad spelling!

[Sascha Franck]

More stable? I'd say so. Although if you know your way around, a PC can be just as stable (but that's the problem in itself, its easier to know your way around a Mac, because the Mac OS doesn't hide anything)

Even if I'm one of the believers in good VFM ratios (and therefor use PCs exclusively, at least until now), I must say that now, after working with OSX for quite some time (not exactly regularly, but pretty much enough to get what it's all about - at least I'm even maintaining two G5s at the local music conservatory), I am indeed quite amazed how easy to maintain OSX is.

Not quite sure (neither familiar) with all the repair permission and other stuff yet (seems to be a big deal sometimes), but one thing is for sure: I spent a LOT of time to understand some Windows things. To get to the same level of knowledge under OSX seems to only take a fraction of the time.
OK, it might also be because I'm quite familiar with computers allready. It might further be because the Macs I'm working with aren't used for anything but Logic, a little iTune listening and burning CDs/DVDs.

But, I was allready amazed enough how easy some things were. Need Toast and Carbon Copy Clone on the other machine as well? No deal, just copy ONE single file and run the program! Amazing! Most Windows programs require registry entries to be present to run at all. Just copy your Nero (for the Mac folks: A CD/DVD burning program) directory to another machine and you'll know what I mean... it simply won't run.

I also found it very easy to find out where all the important things are located under OSX (system settings and preferences and the likes). All this is way more hidden under Windows.

I still don't like the price tag for Macs, especially for laptops. I just had the questionable pleasure of working on a 1.5GHz model recently and I've been amazed at how quickly it was maxed out. For the same price my PC notebook delivers at least double performance.

However, the G5 DP machines are really nice powerhorses and, to be honest, they aren't as overpriced anymore as they used to be.
When running LogicPro 6 there's just a freaking bunch of CPU resources - and even if I think that it allways feels pretty much "unsnappy" at no CPU load, it just stays like that until you max the machine out. Any modern PC feels WAY snappier, but as soon as you hit, say, 50% CPU load under Cubase (or whichever host), PCs start to feel quite sluggish.
Screen redraws and the likes are getting horribly slow while at the same CPU load a Mac is still as fast as without any load (faster than a PC that is).

I really don't like the Finder at all, I find it to be a rather pathetic and spacewasting bitch, but that (and the sloppy response with some mouse actions, such as scrolling) has got to be my only complaint about OSX. Otherwise it's a great OS.
Ah well, and I hate it even more that float windows under Logic never become "active". Under Windows, keycommands still work for float windows, under OSX, if you select, say, a note in Matrix edit and then press backspace, the "source" sequence will be deleted. That's indeed rather lame...

Oh... before I forget, I've got two questions, maybe some of you Mac/Logic folks could help me here:

1) As I'm really using Macs for Logic only, and as I'm really used to having a lot of keycommands on my F keys, is there a way to un-assign them from OSX functions (such as minimizing all windows)? That's something I truly hate - I'd be happy if there was a way to use them in Logic (funny sidenote: by default there's even some keycommands assigned to the F keys in Logic - just that they don't work under OSX, maybe a left over from OS9).

2) When I open Kontakt under Logic, I sometimes want to drag files onto it straight from the finder (we all know how bad the Kontakt browser is...). Under Windows, I just grab the file in explorer, drag it into my Logic window and then onto Kontakt.
Under OSX, whenever I grab the file in finder, Kontakt simply disappears. I can drag it into Logic fine, but the Kontakt GUI won't show up.
Is there any way to drag it onto Kontakt straight?

Thanks in advance.