KVR Audio

christianmusicmaker · Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:46 pm

popsych wrote:This is somewhat realated to the logic PC:: fight or swith thread but my problem has a twist : I have tried replacing Logic with a multitude of hosts, mainly due to it's inability of working with a couple of excellent soft synths (Korg Legacy Cell and White Noise Zero Vector) but with no success as my work is mainly MIDI based.

T2 or...

Project 5 V.2
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Project5/default.asp
FWIW v.2 on paper is a radical step up compared to 1.5 which was pretty good anyway.

P5v.2 is a complete host now.Rewire host or client and can record audio.Midi is hardly basic!Definitely advanced is you ask me.

Just my thoughts.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:32 pm

Jeez wrote: Can you please describe this mysterious Velocity Tool?

Nothing easier than that: You select a note (or a bunch of them) and drag up/down to change their velocities (relative to each other, of course). And that's about it.
No need to look up any parameter boxes on top (you could do so as well in Logic, if required), no need to go down and fool with the velocity controller lane and the pencil (or any other tool for the matter) - which, in addition, won't change velocities in relation to each other. Anyways, if you wanted, you could do it in Logic too.

The velocity tool however usually is the fastest way to get you there.

ChimeraMan · Post by **ChimeraMan** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:44 pm

Velocity Tool rules in my book. Actually, I have tried SX, Traction, Live and someother hosts but I always ended up thinking "well how the f**k do I change that then?" and ended up reverting to Logic. All the versions of Cubase have come across (to me) as a "My First Sequencer" kinda thing.

Anyway, back to work.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:22 am

I can see how that's staggeringly different than selecting a group of notes and dragging a little slider called "velocity".

ChimeraMan · Post by **ChimeraMan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:38 am

Exactly! A shitty slider would of course take up valuable screen space which could be used for more velocity tools!

braj · Post by **braj** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:50 am

I dunno LM, but Tracktion's midi editor always made me want to do anything besides edit midi. It truly sucks. Hopefully T2 will be radically different.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:03 am

That's fine, but I think that too many people hear the phrase "Tracktion's MIDI sucks" and then they just eat it up without actually trying it. I believe that you've tried it, so you're not one of them, but there's an awful lot of people out there who wouldn't even be able to say "why".

Most people click notes, change their velocities, and change their lengths. I know very few people who need or use any 'deep' features, and they're just echoing the "Tracktion's MIDI sucks" because they've heard it so many times.

Not many people can actually say why they'd need other features, or what those other features would be.

Don't get me wrong-- enough people have actually backed up their claims that I DO understand that it's limited for a certain demographic. But that's a pretty select group of people, and most people do only very basic MIDI editing, for which Tracktion is more than adequate.

I personally think that Tracktion 1 was meant as an audio sequencer, and that's largely what I use it for. But I woudln't want people to think that it's not an option for them because they use MIDI. Lots of us use MIDI, and some Tracktion people use MIDI exclusively and don't even USE the audio. So the MIDI functionality can't be as 'god-awful' as the exaggerators like to say.

Greg

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:10 am

[DELETED]

braj · Post by **braj** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:24 am

With Tracktion's midi, hopefully that's fixed in T2, which I imagine it will be. I seriously can't imagine someone exclusively using T1's midi and choosing that over nearly any other sequencer though. That would be odd.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:31 am

I know of at least one.

It's not that odd, depending on how you work and what tools you need. Tracktion's MIDI isn't glorious, but it's capable. For some people, that's all they need, and the rest of Tracktion's workflow fits in with what they do.

Especially at $80 vs. $800, I can easily see why someone would go with Tracktion.

braj · Post by **braj** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:13 am

Lunch Money wrote:I know of at least one. It's not that odd, depending on how you work and what tools you need. Tracktion's MIDI isn't glorious, but it's capable. For some people, that's all they need, and the rest of Tracktion's workflow fits in with what they do.

Especially at $80 vs. $800, I can easily see why someone would go with Tracktion.

Actually, I believe it's more like $80 vs $999

But I got LE7 for about $100 from a junkie friend who needed a fix

so for me it's more like $80 vs $100, or for T2 $149 vs $100. Only real issue I have is it's Mac only and my more powerful machine is a PC. But I'm scheming how to get a Mac Mini, I hear they run Logic very well, and with freeze I think I'll be fine. Nice thing is it is so tiny I could set it on top of my PC and have it all.

So, I'm waiting to see how improved T2 is and maybe wait another 6 months (G5 Mini maybe?) and then either buy T2 (when/if timestretch is improved) or buy a new Mac and just use the PC for games or something.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:59 am

To the originator of this post!

kpop has got the answer for you!!! He made me see the
light, hope you can see it too! I was in the same boat as you too and so was...,

kpop wrote:Been in the same boat. Looked for a few years for an alternative for Logic PC, but just could not. So I did what a never thought I would do; got me a mac (a mac mini w. 1 gb legacy RAM). Switchgraded already a year ago to 6.4. and after reading a few horror stories on L7, sticked to that. Did not want to abandon my fav PC plugs so I noded with MIDIoverLAN to my old PC lappie (Tracktion as a host). Got also a Yamaha O1X, which is a marvellous piece of hardware (on the mac).

The result: great! I am still amazed how easy the mac was set up, everything worked (almost) out of the box. The mini mac is very adequate for my needs, is almost completely silent, and I can use all the old PC plugs in L6 like they were on the mac (no latency issues). Very happy with this setup, not a single crash s far. So if you wanna stick with Logic, get a cheap mac and just continue to work like you want to.

kpop

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:09 am

OK, I got that: Logic is great for midi.
But how about its audio capabilities comparing to Cubase, which, by the way, has some excellent functions?
Please answer only if you know really well Cubase.
Thanks.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:22 am

HI

The FEW things that I found awkward with midi in T1 were the selection of the midi tools - I found myself scrolling up or down the menu ber and quite often 'a glitch?' causes the piano roll to shoot up or down.
The magnification needs to played with a lot more as the amount of screen was smaller (I have heard this area gets bigger in T2 - thats VERY welcome!).
I found in general that expanding the track view overly sensetive.
So nothing major but the above and other small foibles are what I am hoping will be improved on - if they are then I might at last have a host that I can settle down with because currently I have pretty well tried (for extended periods) almost EVERY host/sequencer around and am not happy with any of them!
Saying that SXV3 is bearable but I would stop using it regularly if T2 meets my needs - roll on release time.

Flipper.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:41 am

OMU wrote:OK, I got that: Logic is great for midi.
But how about its audio capabilities comparing to Cubase, which, by the way, has some excellent functions?
Please answer only if you know really well Cubase.
Thanks.

Well, regarding "pure" audio treatment, SX is quite ahead of Logic IMO (I don't know about the Logic 7 improvements, I'm only familiar until Logic 6).

Warp Audio is working quite well, also the time stretching abilities are way better.
The same might go for cycle recordings, which actually are somewhat of a pain to deal with in Logic.

In addition, Cubase would allow you to treat a small segment of a given audio part with plugins. Rather impossible in Logic (unless you set up an extra track and put the snipplets you want to affect onto it).

Personally, if I were mainly into audio work, I would most likely chose SX or Nuendo (well, maybe Samplitude is even better, still haven't checked the demo) as all sorts of finetunings are easier to achieve.
But then, my focus actually seems to be MIDI work (strange thing, being a guitar player mainly...), and regarding that, I can't do without Logic (at least not for now).

Logic PC:: Again