Sad state of Native Instruments

[machinesworking]

You and others state things as if they're facts

What others say is not my business or responsibility. If I stated something that is inaccurate, quote that and be specific. If I said something that is inaccurate, I don't mind being corrected.

But what you constantly do is read the responses of a bunch of different people, draw conclusions as if it were one person saying those things and then apply those conclusions to all those people. You lump them together and put words in their mouths that they didn't say. It's sloppy and it's rude.

You prove my point when you stick to ad hominem. I reread our interactions in this thread out of courtesy, and you explicitly started taking offense to something I said to someone else, not you. So no, your opinion on my posts isn't some rational Data driven thing. You specifically haven't commented on anything I've said in direct reply to your points for a while now and are going for emotional drivel.

You don't get it, I'm OK with being proven wrong, but you're point about me stating that people are over emphasizing NI's fate and place in the world is nonsense. This thread is titled "The Sad State of Native Instruments" for christsake.

[egbert101]

Opposite problem for me, I got bored with hardware, prefer the ease of use and workflow of software!

[Dirtgrain]

You and others state things as if they're facts, then get upset when holes can be poked in those "facts". Ad hominem is the proof of this. [emphasis added]

Someone making an ad hominem comment is not proof that they are upset nor that they are wrong. It is, in fact, a logical fallacy to claim such a thing (sometimes called the fallacy fallacy--but also a non sequitur). You can for sure call out someone for making ad hominem comments as a flaw in their argument.

[machinesworking]

You and others state things as if they're facts, then get upset when holes can be poked in those "facts". Ad hominem is the proof of this. [emphasis added]

Someone making an ad hominem comment is not proof that they are upset nor that they are wrong. It is, in fact, a logical fallacy to claim such a thing (sometimes called the fallacy fallacy--but also a non sequitur). You can for sure call out someone for making ad hominem comments as a flaw in their argument.

Any time you need to use any of the argumentative fallacies you’ve lost the plot. Sure we all do it sometimes, but framing a conversation around someone’s personality is as cheap as it gets. IMO none of this is that important, there’s thousands of plug ins out there, and yes any personal attack IMO points to you not having a point, or feeling threatened by what someone is saying. None of this is that important, it’s just a conversation about a companies policies, none of us have invested in NI stock, or are invested in their demise.

[digitalboytn]

Opposite problem for me, I got bored with hardware, prefer the ease of use and workflow of software!

[rod_zero]

Opposite problem for me, I got bored with hardware, prefer the ease of use and workflow of software!

I just find dealing with cables and recording takes very chore like and it gets on my nerves. So yeah, software is way easier to use for me.

[ghettosynth]

Opposite problem for me, I got bored with hardware, prefer the ease of use and workflow of software!

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I used to feel exactly the same way. I had the typical midi studio in the 90s with polyphony coming from multiple synths. I'm not on board with just any hardware, my current workflow is very specific. I'm not, at all, interested in going back to the endless midi cables and trying to get sysex working so that knob twiddling is captured. Moreover, for certain types of music I'm still all about in the box.

What I've found though, is that I missed a certain kind of improvisational composition style that comes from having knobs at arms length and it's exactly the opposite to what is described here in terms of time consuming. With software I often spend too much time setting up controllers to get the kind of improvisational workflow going. With hardware, I patch and play. I spend time with that "instrument" and then move on.

It does take a certain commitment to not worrying about not being able to recreate something, or continue to work on it at the source level in the future. I just turn on the multitrack and play my gear. Sometimes, I turn what comes out into a track, mostly, I don't bother, it's an experience in and of itself.

[jamcat]

Someone else probably already pointed this out, but resizing KONTAKT 7 looks like garbage even at 125%. Text is practically unreadable because the fonts are pixelated, despite the entire point of fonts is they're supposed to be resizable vectors. I don't know how they can screw that up, but they did.

[CrystalWizard]

i thought the rot started right about when they tanked Kore. When they "updated/downgraded" Battery from 3 to 4. That's when it started to seem like NI had changed direction from a cutting edge soft synth developer into a money grubbing corpse. Doing Only what will bring in the most $. Yeah, yeah, all the corp bootlickers, now is your chance to chime in and say "b b but that what corporations do, they just exist to make money" ok. sure. Fortunately NI wasn't following that philosophy in the 2000s or i we would be missing some amazing software.

Kore wasn’t near the first casualty. There were literally 6-12 other plug ins that got deprecated before Kore: B3, Pro 53, Akoustic and Elektric Piano, Spectral Delay, Kompact, Intakt, Vokator… I’m probably forgetting a few?

So no, the rot didn’t start when they tanked Kore. A rep in their forums claimed it would be the last main product to be deprecated, and only the gullible would have believed that after the previous trail of blood! They did in fact slow down their abandoning of plug ins after Kore, but anyone paying attention knew it will never stop.

Like i commented sometime around then. Spectral Delay was abandoned, those others were all downgraded into other products. Glad someone is keeping track better than i and can correct me on my opinion.

Yes Pro 53 and Vokator were rolled into Kontakt, oh wait?...
Kore was simply the one that made you the most angry, even the sample based instruments weren't magically better downgraded into Kontakt.
I didn't mention the train wreck of Komplete Care, the broken promises with PPC to Intel transitions etc etc.

When you go online and state an opinion as if it was fact, you have to expect that people will bust holes in it. NI very arguably did not start "rotting" with the abandoning of Kore, that's all.

UH, really, now! Thanks for your opinion. i've been stating mostly opinions here (except occasional technical detail), it's actually pretty obvious to most members. Sometime i ad the imo but it seems obvious to me. Do i need to add it to every comment i make?
No, i didn't care a bit about Kore (not angry) but thanks for that insight into my emotions. I never got comfortable with Kore so i "dodged the bullet" when they tanked it. I was bummed about Spectral Delay but i didn't care about Pro 52 or the pianos and organs.

It's amusing that we are both saying similar things but one of us needs to be "right." I'm cool with being wrong, ok, the rot started before they tanked Kore. Feelin' better? (unfortunately it is still the case, the rot started and it's gone to the kore!) Sorry everyone.

I'm not happy with NI but most of what i bought from them is functioning well on the machines i use for music. It's a huge bummer that they aren't heading in the direction of synths instead of maxing out sample packs, (do i need to add imo?) but there's other great synth developers now who will get the money.

[psynical]

Someone else probably already pointed this out, but resizing KONTAKT 7 looks like garbage even at 125%. Text is practically unreadable because the fonts are pixelated, despite the entire point of fonts is they're supposed to be resizable vectors. I don't know how they can screw that up, but they did.

Did you really think that they were going to rebuild every single GUI that they'd ever released? Or that all the 3rd party devs were going to do the same? There was no "screw up," aside from your expectations.

[jamcat]

Huh. Explain how any of that applies to this:
The multi-rack text is jacked. The menu icons are jacked. Even the new KONTAKT logo is jacked.
These are fonts and icons and basic components of the KONTAKT 7 software, not legacy libraries.



The new browser/resizable interface is literally the only thing new in KONTAKT 7 from version 6.

What the hell did I actually pay for when I upgraded?

[machinesworking]

i thought the rot started right about when they tanked Kore. When they "updated/downgraded" Battery from 3 to 4. That's when it started to seem like NI had changed direction from a cutting edge soft synth developer into a money grubbing corpse. Doing Only what will bring in the most $. Yeah, yeah, all the corp bootlickers, now is your chance to chime in and say "b b but that what corporations do, they just exist to make money" ok. sure. Fortunately NI wasn't following that philosophy in the 2000s or i we would be missing some amazing software.

Kore wasn’t near the first casualty. There were literally 6-12 other plug ins that got deprecated before Kore: B3, Pro 53, Akoustic and Elektric Piano, Spectral Delay, Kompact, Intakt, Vokator… I’m probably forgetting a few?

So no, the rot didn’t start when they tanked Kore. A rep in their forums claimed it would be the last main product to be deprecated, and only the gullible would have believed that after the previous trail of blood! They did in fact slow down their abandoning of plug ins after Kore, but anyone paying attention knew it will never stop.

Like i commented sometime around then. Spectral Delay was abandoned, those others were all downgraded into other products. Glad someone is keeping track better than i and can correct me on my opinion.

Yes Pro 53 and Vokator were rolled into Kontakt, oh wait?...
Kore was simply the one that made you the most angry, even the sample based instruments weren't magically better downgraded into Kontakt.
I didn't mention the train wreck of Komplete Care, the broken promises with PPC to Intel transitions etc etc.

When you go online and state an opinion as if it was fact, you have to expect that people will bust holes in it. NI very arguably did not start "rotting" with the abandoning of Kore, that's all.

UH, really, now! Thanks for your opinion. i've been stating mostly opinions here (except occasional technical detail), it's actually pretty obvious to most members. Sometime i ad the imo but it seems obvious to me. Do i need to add it to every comment i make?
No, i didn't care a bit about Kore (not angry) but thanks for that insight into my emotions. I never got comfortable with Kore so i "dodged the bullet" when they tanked it. I was bummed about Spectral Delay but i didn't care about Pro 52 or the pianos and organs.

It's amusing that we are both saying similar things but one of us needs to be "right." I'm cool with being wrong, ok, the rot started before they tanked Kore. Feelin' better? (unfortunately it is still the case, the rot started and it's gone to the kore!) Sorry everyone.

I'm not happy with NI but most of what i bought from them is functioning well on the machines i use for music. It's a huge bummer that they aren't heading in the direction of synths instead of maxing out sample packs, (do i need to add imo?) but there's other great synth developers now who will get the money.

Would it surprise you that I don’t disagree with anything you said? well put. The internet is filled with arguments that go nowhere, and honestly I wasn’t trying to bust your balls. I’ve just had mixed feelings about NIs spotty business practices and great products forever, and it just surprises me that they get dogged on now with death cries, instead of just criticism.

[pdxindy]

What I've found though, is that I missed a certain kind of improvisational composition style that comes from having knobs at arms length and it's exactly the opposite to what is described here in terms of time consuming. With software I often spend too much time setting up controllers to get the kind of improvisational workflow going. With hardware, I patch and play. I spend time with that "instrument" and then move on.

It does take a certain commitment to not worrying about not being able to recreate something, or continue to work on it at the source level in the future. I just turn on the multitrack and play my gear. Sometimes, I turn what comes out into a track, mostly, I don't bother, it's an experience in and of itself.

Yeah, it's a different approach.

When I am using hardware, I don't even try to make it something I can recall in the future. I record to audio and keep going... never to be reproduced. It's fun and refreshing.

[jancivil]

While we're all arguing about the same stuff we've all been arguing about for years [insert: synthesizerses*] NI released Valves Pro yesterday.



This looks and sounds like an exceptionally well conceived library. There isn't anything else that has taken this approach - it feels best in class. It's vast but elegant, and looks like a lot of thought has gone into the different ways you can work with it.

(*: not to mention all the negative waves, Moriarty),

well said!

I watched a making of on the youtube, and this is specifically what _I_ want NI to be doing.
(it's ok if they make a whatchamatable synth or 2 in the future too)

[jancivil]

Funny, I went from my disappointment with my attempt to revisit 1986 and the DX7 right to Absynth and a Pentium 4 box. So here's the synth that upset some apple carts doing something other than than a single diagrammatic A_D_S_R to another one that was also too hard to do.
This specifically occurs to me as I see Absynth used as a singular example of NI's Abandonment of Teh Synths as well as it not being updated. I came back to virtual music and the DAW ways in order to get into 3D and Surround. Now, Cubendo is veddy veddy strikt with the numbers here, and guess what? It allows Absynth in my MIR Pro 3D (5.0 & 5.1 anyway) venue(s) but none of the other NI thingies. Only other thing I know from is Synchron Player Surround.
Somebody here can probably tell us what year they began with a Surround version...

and they said irony was dead