Oh boy, another VA synth. This time from Waves!

[Fritze]

I don't think "Element" can by copyrighted. Perhaps "Waves Element", still... it differs from "Xoxos Element". But I won't bet on the later if there's a lawsuit going on.

You mean in the same way as if they would use generic words like Corona, Discovery or Vertigo?

[george]

I don't think "Element" can by copyrighted. Perhaps "Waves Element", still... it differs from "Xoxos Element". But I won't bet on the later if there's a lawsuit going on.

You mean in the same way as if they would use generic words like Corona, Discovery or Vertigo?

Yes, or Diva But it's a risk for them too.

[Kriminal]

2.) Element is a common word found in a dictionary (it's both a german and english word...) so it could not be copyrighted i guess

so is Jupiter and Juno, lets see how far you get if you build a synth with that name....

I think it has to do with Juno word trademarked as international brand. I admit the © and ™ thing is very complex.

i don't think the name "Juno" is copyrighted, there is even a movie with that name. It gets problematic if you use the name for a synth and even more if it is an emulation of the real thing.
There is also a brand called Jupiter that produces e.g. Trumpets. They evene use "JP" in their model names:
http://www.thomann.de/de/jupiter_trompeten.html



Ingo

You really have no idea do you...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

[Ingonator]

I don't think "Element" can by copyrighted. Perhaps "Waves Element", still... it differs from "Xoxos Element". But I won't bet on the later if there's a lawsuit going on.

You mean in the same way as if they would use generic words like Corona, Discovery or Vertigo?

or Diva, Zebra, Ace, Bazille (is a german slang word)...


Ingo

[Fritze]

Yes, I think the whole naming thing can get really hilarious.
The german Telekom even once wanted to trademark the color magenta! Wow...

[Fritze]

...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

That sums it up pretty nicely.

[george]

or Diva, Zebra, Ace, Bazille (is a german slang word)...

I think any developer who is serious about releasing anything checks for used names first, don't they? Ok, Waves is the exception here

[Ingonator]

You really have no idea do you...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

If there would be a hypothetical problem, just think about this:

Xoxos Element was released at October of last year:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=361375

Guy (the Waves Element dev) mentioned Waves Element was developed over two years so the question is who used the name first...

I doubt the development of Xoxos Element took two years too.


Ingo

[george]

But Waves can't prove they choose Element as their synth name 2 years ago. It could have been 1 month ago.

[deadReactor]

I think that the discussions about SE code in Waves Element and the Xoxos plugin are enough now.

Ingo

Hi,

there IS some plaintext xml config in the element dll referring to se modules, I checked out of curiosity.
If this means there is actually some se stuff going on under the hood or if this is just some leftover from prototyping/renaming lazyness is beyond me.

w.

[vurt]

But Waves can't prove they choose Element as their synth name 2 years ago. It could have been 1 month ago.

exactly, i doubt vry much that it would have been named early in the development stages.

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

[Ingonator]

But Waves can't prove they choose Element as their synth name 2 years ago. It could have been 1 month ago.

after all is all that fuss even relevant? Xoxos Element is an Open source license so it is hardly copyrighted in any way and the only place where you could find the plugin now is at KVR database but not at the Xoxos website...
Last but not least they are totally different. One is a sampler/Wav player and the other a VA synth, both with a totally different GUI.


Ingo

[Kriminal]

You really have no idea do you...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

If there would be a hypothetical problem, just think about this:

Xoxos Element was released at October of last year:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=361375

Guy (the Waves Element dev) mentioned Waves Element was developed over two years so the question is who used the name first...

I doubt the development of Xoxos Element took two years too.


Ingo

Whats your point? If they already had the name, they would have made a complaint to xoxos when he released his Element.

[JJ_Jettflow]

2.) Element is a common word found in a dictionary (it's both a german and english word...) so it could not be copyrighted i guess

so is Jupiter and Juno, lets see how far you get if you build a synth with that name....

I think it has to do with Juno word trademarked as international brand. I admit the © and ™ thing is very complex.

i don't think the name "Juno" is copyrighted, there is even a movie with that name. It gets problematic if you use the name for a synth and even more if it is an emulation of the real thing.
There is also a brand called Jupiter that produces e.g. Trumpets. They evene use "JP" in their model names:
http://www.thomann.de/de/jupiter_trompeten.html



Ingo

You really have no idea do you...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

Actually you can and Apple computers got into some serious trouble with Apple Records over using the name Apple.

[Kriminal]

2.) Element is a common word found in a dictionary (it's both a german and english word...) so it could not be copyrighted i guess

so is Jupiter and Juno, lets see how far you get if you build a synth with that name....

I think it has to do with Juno word trademarked as international brand. I admit the © and ™ thing is very complex.

i don't think the name "Juno" is copyrighted, there is even a movie with that name. It gets problematic if you use the name for a synth and even more if it is an emulation of the real thing.
There is also a brand called Jupiter that produces e.g. Trumpets. They evene use "JP" in their model names:
http://www.thomann.de/de/jupiter_trompeten.html



Ingo

You really have no idea do you...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

Actually you can and Apple computers got into some serious trouble with Apple Records over using the name Apple.

...but not enought to stop them using the name. Both unrelated businesses, so no problem