Roland Cloud

[robotmonkey]

If you want 9 roland cloud instruments, you need 9 years of
subscriptions and 9 years of waiting at a cost of $ 220 x 9 = $1980

Conclusion: My condolences to the roland cloud subscribers.

Currently Roland Cloud offers 24 products so in 9 years (if Roland Cloud still exists then) they maybe offer around 100 products or more and you could use all those products during those 9 years of subscription besides owning 9 of them permanently during that time...

This assumption rests on a completely false premise that people would want everything in the bundle. Most people probably have already tons of synths and are interested in maybe couple of the products and see the rest of as filler.

Currently there's one plugins I'm actually interested in - JV1080 - and two I might be remotely interested in - D50 and maybe Jupiter 8 if they would fix the horrible GUI and CPU usage.

If JV1080 is as good as the XV-3080 module then I would be ok paying for it in the 100$ range. For D50 I would not pay more than I paid for Korg Wavestation which is a much more interesting synth.

Because these synths are pretty much complete and don't need much development after some time I would see no reason to keep paying to use them over long period.

Besides synths mentioned above, only things in Roland lineup that would be of interest to me are maybe V-Synth emulation and maybe if they released a V-Drum sound module. And that's pretty much it.
Maybe add some Boss stomp box and multi-fx emulations.

[braj]

So yeah, I don't think I'd actually like to spend $240 on any of the Roland synths, they do sound great, but so do a lot of the synths I already own. Roland will have to step up their interface game, they are pretty Synthedit-2005 sort of horrendous, patch browsing is no fun at all. IMO they are way overpriced. They need to offer a plan that makes more economic sense if they want my dough. Maybe the next System synth will do it, or next year's plugins, I don't know, but programming all of the Roland synths just seems a joyless chore. It did get me back to looking at getting TAL Bassline 101 at some stage though, it compares favorably to the Roland SH-101. I will look for it used, because well, people can actually sell it when they find they don't need it. Maybe $40 instead of $240. That sounds good to me I'm not opposed to a cloud service, but I am opposed to this particular offering.

[T-CM11]

I'm pretty sure my guess is better as yours (me being a prepress professional). It's a "success" in the professional world because they bought up all the competition and companies previously just buying their software have nowhere left to go.

That doesn't invalidate that it's a success.

But what is the success? The monopoly or the cloud?

I'm pretty sure few non-professionals buy into their cloud --- why not? Because it's so expensive. They'll keep using their old version, find an alternative or *maybe* rent one/few of Adobe's products - never/rarely the full Cloud package.

Why would most non graphics professionals need to buy the full thing? That makes no sense whatsoever. I know a *ton* of non-professionals however who buy the Photographers plan (me included). That also doesn't mean the model isn't a success.

I was talking about prepress, not photography or design.

And comparing it with streaming music/video is hardly valid. Those just replace/improve on something that existed for decades: radio/TV. (A lot of) people that are passionate about music or film still like buying and not just renting. And plenty of artists swear by physical releases - does it matter that you or the average Joe's never heard about them. I poop on the music industry and their "major labels".

I agree that nobody has an endless budget for subs. But then again nobody has an endless budget for "single" payments of software either. Amazing how we all need to budget our money.

One or a few single payments means more income (for a company) then no subscription. Subscriptions and single payments aren't interchangeable spendings.

[fmr]

Can anyone say if the System-1 can load all of the plug outs, or is that limited to a few?

It is a mono synth, right? Therefore, it will not "eat" the polyphonic ones, naturally.

[braj]

Can anyone say if the System-1 can load all of the plug outs, or is that limited to a few?

It is a mono synth, right? Therefore, it will not "eat" the polyphonic ones, naturally.

But the plugins, when you click Plugout, seem to indicate it can host them. So I dunno, it is seemingly contradictory.

[braj]

For the Jupiter (actually all the plugouts) it says:

---------------------------
JUPITER-8
---------------------------
Either the PLUG-OUT SYNTHESIZER is not connected, or is connected incorrectly.
Check the connection.

Connecting SYSTEM-8 and/or SYSTEM-1 PLUG-OUT SYNTHESIZER to this software allows you to:
- Take this software as a PLUG-OUT wherever you go, from mobile production to live performance.
- Transfer sounds between SYSTEM-8/SYSTEM-1 and this software with PLUG-OUT.
- Use SYSTEM-8/SYSTEM-1 as a fully-controllable dedicated keyboard controller via USB.
For further information about PLUG-OUT SYNTHESIZER, please visit to http://www.roland.com/
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

[fmr]

Can anyone say if the System-1 can load all of the plug outs, or is that limited to a few?

It is a mono synth, right? Therefore, it will not "eat" the polyphonic ones, naturally.

But the plugins, when you click Plugout, seem to indicate it can host them. So I dunno, it is seemingly contradictory.

Well, I don't have any any System keyboard, but I'd say it's pure logic here. If the hardware is monophonic, and the plug-outs reside in the jhardware to run, it's unlikely that a polyphonic one would be able to load.

That said, Roland is always very vague in what concerns plug-outs, and they kind of dropped that after launching the System-8 (probably, it wasn't the success they expcted it to be, and they will abandon the concept - something Roland do all the time).

Besides, the System-8 page says this: "2 - Support for SYSTEM-8 on previously released plug-out synths to be available soon." which means that the existing mono plug-outs weren't even compatible when it was launched.

Anyway, if something, you would be able to run Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 as mono synths, which is kind of pointless. And D-50 and JV-1080 aren't even "plug-outs". So, you would be left with the less interesting synths, if they ever would allow you to use them.

EDIT: I checked, and it seems the System-1 is 4-voice polyphonic, so, I take back what I wrote It may be able to load Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 with limited polyphony. But that's uncertain, as it would need some kind of software update for that, I guess. And the Jupiter-8 specs in Roland Cloud say, loud and clear: "PLUG OUT to the Roland SYSTEM-8"

[Ingonator]

In the past some people complained about the noisy Chorus in the Roland Cloud Juno-106 plugin.
I just found that the amount of noise could be adjusted/reduced with the corresponding "Tone" knob in the FX section of the Juno-106 plugin (usually the first of the 3 FXs found at the right part of the GUI).
If you replace the Chorus with different effects like e.g. a Phaser that Tone knob has a different use.

FWIW what i like with the Roland Cloud Juno-106, SH-101 and alo SH-2 is that they have a dedicated second ADSR envelope opposing to the corresponding hardware synths. This could make a huge difference when programming your own patches.

The Roland Cloud SH-101 has no dedicated step sequencer (besides the Arp) but there are a few possible workarounds for that.

[fmr]

For the Jupiter (actually all the plugouts) it says:

---------------------------
JUPITER-8
---------------------------
Either the PLUG-OUT SYNTHESIZER is not connected, or is connected incorrectly.
Check the connection.

Connecting SYSTEM-8 and/or SYSTEM-1 PLUG-OUT SYNTHESIZER to this software allows you to:
- Take this software as a PLUG-OUT wherever you go, from mobile production to live performance.
- Transfer sounds between SYSTEM-8/SYSTEM-1 and this software with PLUG-OUT.
- Use SYSTEM-8/SYSTEM-1 as a fully-controllable dedicated keyboard controller via USB.
For further information about PLUG-OUT SYNTHESIZER, please visit to http://www.roland.com/
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

Since these are generic instructions, I wouldn't rely on that as a proof of compatibility. And the specs of the Jupiter-8 say otherwise, as I wrote (actually, the system requirements are crystal clear about this). So, if you REALLY want Jupiter-8, you will have to think SYSTEM-8.

[braj]

Yeah, I'm not going to rely on them, since I won't be buying one anyway I love the concept, but the execution isn't there yet.

[fmr]

Yeah, I'm not going to rely on them, since I won't be buying one anyway I love the concept, but the execution isn't there yet.

There were countless attemtps to create a hardware keyboard able to load software synths. Creamware were the firsts (AFAIK) with a prototype around 2009/2010, and later created the Noah, for example. There was that other label that created very well spec'ed keyboards with bult-in computers that were able to load basically any VST plug-in, at least theoretically (Open Labs NeKo). And there was MUSE Receptor (by the people that owned KVR at the time), and also another device called V-Machine (and a variation on this called Plugiator).

Over time, all these have been abandoned. Apparently, people don't adhere to the concept, or there are problems in the implementation (I think NeKo was unable to load any plug-in that used copy protection behind serial number, which severely limited its use, for example, and the price was too high, more than buying the several pieces combined). So the concept is not new (far from it) but it never succeeded in all the several atempts to implement it. And all of them had much broader horizons than this "plug-out" system.

Besides, this wasn't the first attempt from Roland - the first was VariOS, and there were several variations on the concept over time. The results were always flops.

[db3]

If you REALLY want Jupiter-8, you will have to think SYSTEM-8.

Yes, I've not seen anything which suggests System-1 can run plug-outs other than the mono SH-101, SH-2 & Promars. Its own engine can run 4-note poly (which I never thought sounded that good), so you would think it might have enough DSP to be able to do a 4 voice Juno (a la Boutique). Perhaps that was an intentional decision by Roland.

The most annoying about the Juno 106/Jupiter 8 plugins, is that I couldn't find a way to use them simply to recall patches on the System-8 in a DAW. i.e. there is no zero voice/editor only mode.

[fmr]

If you REALLY want Jupiter-8, you will have to think SYSTEM-8.

Yes, I've not seen anything which suggests System-1 can run plug-outs other than the mono SH-101, SH-2 & Promars. Its own engine can run 4-note poly (which I never thought sounded that good), so you would think it might have enough DSP to be able to do a 4 voice Juno (a la Boutique). Perhaps that was an intentional decision by Roland.

The most annoying about the Juno 106/Jupiter 8 plugins, is that I couldn't find a way to use them simply to recall patches on the System-8 in a DAW. i.e. there is no zero voice/editor only mode.

I think the main problem is the price. A Roland System-8 costs around 1.300/1.400 euros. For that price, you are able to buy a decent spec'ed laptop and a decent controller keyboard. In a recent sale, you could buy Komplete Controller keyboards with Komplete for less than 1.000 euros, if I remember well.

Add a laptop and a good audio interface (let's say another 1.000) and you already a much more powerful system, and with potential to grow "ad infinitum". And that system is upgradeable, since you can replace the laptop with a more powerful one, and you immediately have a newer and updated system - which is not the case with the System-8. That's the weakness of systems like the "plug-out" one.

And with a system like what I described, you aren't locked to plug-outs - you can use ANYTHING.

[beely]

For that price, you are able to buy a decent spec'ed laptop and a decent controller keyboard. Add a laptop and a good audio interface (let's say another 1.000) and you already a much more powerful system, and with potential to grow "ad infinitum". And that system is upgradeable, since you can replace the laptop with a more powerful one, and you immediately have a newer and updated system - which is not the case with the System-8. That's the weakness of systems like the "plug-out" one.

And with a system like what I described, you aren't locked to plug-outs - you can use ANYTHING.

Sure, but for any money, you can buy other things. You could spend that money on a car, or a radio controlled helicopter, whatever. Someone interested in a System 8 probably already has a computer system and various plugins - they're attracted the to S8 because it gives them a standalone synth they can play live, and because you have a dedicated synth control surface that adapts to the different synth models, with correctly labelled and setup controls etc - that is a *big* win for synth programming.

Buying a laptop and plugins gives you more sounds, but it doesn't give you a control surface, or a way to make music away from the computer. Different things.

These are silly arguments really - products are what they are, and appeal or don't appeal to individuals, and they live and die in the marketplace.

As for Roland abandoning it - we don't really know yet if the whole thing *had* been "abandoned", whatever that means. Some people have said that Roland have abandoned the concept foolishly because it didn't do well in the market. Well - if it didn't do well, it means it's not appealing to people so why should they continue to invest in something that "failed"? Invest in the next thing that might be way better - or find out why it failed, and create new products that address those issues to make it more appealing. The idea that Roland should blindly keep making these things when no-one is buying them is stupid - they will adapt, and move forward, just as they have always done.

The fact that we have computers and plugins hasn't stopped people investing in hardware (well, it has done over the past decade, but there seems to be a resurgence in interest in hardware, not just synths, but modular stuff, small fun boxes etc). Many of these things can already be done in software, but people like the workflow of getting away from the computer and the mouse.

Roland made a good stab and trying to cross-over and appeal to both worlds, and I think it's likely that we'll see *more* stuff from Roland in this area, regardless of whether it's this "System" thing, or something else.

Time will tell, as it always does...

[Ingonator]

Not to forget that some people might be interested in the default synth of Sytsem-8 that is no emulation of vintage synths but a synth on it's own.

IMO is it quite amazing that the System-8 synth is included as a plugin with Roland Cloud.
Seems to be like a kind of moden JP-8000 that also offers doing the Supersaw besides a lot of other stuff.