Oh boy, another VA synth. This time from Waves!

[vurt]

Last but not least they are totally different. One is a sampler/Wav player and the other a VA synth, both with a totally different GUI.


Ingo

no one is saying waves copied xoxos, its the naming comvention and respect that is questionable.

[Ingonator]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

[Kriminal]

But Waves can't prove they choose Element as their synth name 2 years ago. It could have been 1 month ago.

after all is all that fuss even relevant? Xoxos Element is an Open source license so it is hardly copyrighted in any way and the only place where you could find the plugin now is at KVR database but not at the Xoxos website...
Last but not least they are totally different. One is a sampler/Wav player and the other a VA synth, both with a totally different GUI.


Ingo

They are both VST's!!!

[JJ_Jettflow]

so is Jupiter and Juno, lets see how far you get if you build a synth with that name....

I think it has to do with Juno word trademarked as international brand. I admit the © and ™ thing is very complex.

i don't think the name "Juno" is copyrighted, there is even a movie with that name. It gets problematic if you use the name for a synth and even more if it is an emulation of the real thing.
There is also a brand called Jupiter that produces e.g. Trumpets. They evene use "JP" in their model names:
http://www.thomann.de/de/jupiter_trompeten.html



Ingo

You really have no idea do you...make a synth called juno and see what happens

Better still, start a computer company called apple, after all, its a fruit, you cant copyright a fruit!

Actually you can and Apple computers got into some serious trouble with Apple Records over using the name Apple.

...but not enought to stop them using the name. Both unrelated businesses, so no problem

No..when they started selling music Apple Records went after them. Until that point, there was an agreement that Apple could use the name as long as they did not get involved in music. Apple Computers broke that promise with iTunes.. Google itbif you want to know more.

[Gamma-UT]

People are confusing copyright with trademark law here. Apple Corp had the trademark on the name from the late 60s but the US courts allowed Apple Computer to continue as long as they didn't go into the music business (after a couple of decades I guess they clean forgot). Hence the 'sosumi' bleep in the original Macintosh sound effects.

[vurt]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

and many synths i have alpha and beta tested werent named till shortly before release, in one case not named until the release when a competition named it.

[george]

But Waves can't prove they choose Element as their synth name 2 years ago. It could have been 1 month ago.

after all is all that fuss even relevant?

Not really. Xoxos or Waves (or VSL) don't seem to care about this either.

[vurt]

People are confusing copyright with trademark law here. Apple Corp had the trademark on the name from the late 60s but the US courts allowed Apple Computer to continue as long as they didn't go into the music business (after a couple of decades I guess they clean forgot). Hence the 'sosumi' bleep in the original Macintosh sound effects.

im not confusing anything, i havent mentioned copyright or trademark, im interested in respect. and waves seemngly have shown none here to my eyes.

[Ingonator]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

and many synths i have alpha and beta tested werent named till shortly before release, in one case not named until the release when a competition named it.

I have done a bunch of Beta tests but i never found it that way. Usually the developer has a clear idea about the plugin before he does Beta tests.
Even with Tactile Sounds Substance (freeware) for which i made Beta tests and presets the name was there already...


Ingo

[Kriminal]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

and many synths i have alpha and beta tested werent named till shortly before release, in one case not named until the release when a competition named it.

Same here. The names often change. Dune (a synth i tested and made presets for ) had a few names.

[vurt]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

and many synths i have alpha and beta tested werent named till shortly before release, in one case not named until the release when a competition named it.

I have done a bunch of Beta tests but i never found it that way. Usually the developer has a clear idea about the plugin before he does Beta tests.
Even with Tactile Sounds Substance (freeware) for which i made Beta tests and presets the name was there already...

The only question we could ask how both came to the idea for that name. For Oxium there was a survey for the name long before the Beta started.


Ingo

well clearly we have different experiences in the field of beta testing.

[Ingonator]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

and many synths i have alpha and beta tested werent named till shortly before release, in one case not named until the release when a competition named it.

Same here. The names often change. Dune (a synth i tested and made presets for ) had a few names.

We are talking about a time of around 3 months (or less) here between both releases. Are you sure Dune was called differently during that time period before release?


Ingo

[Gamma-UT]

People are confusing copyright with trademark law here. Apple Corp had the trademark on the name from the late 60s but the US courts allowed Apple Computer to continue as long as they didn't go into the music business (after a couple of decades I guess they clean forgot). Hence the 'sosumi' bleep in the original Macintosh sound effects.

im not confusing anything, i havent mentioned copyright or trademark, im interested in respect. and waves seemngly have shown none here to my eyes.

i didn't mean everybody. Some people, such as Ingo, were talking about copyright with respect to product names, where it doesn't apply.

I didn't really want to get stuck into whether Waves was morally right or wrong in naming Element. Most of these things tend to be more c*ck-up than anything. Marketing people in larger companies have this stunning ability to not even do cursory checks even though they're supposed to be in charge of 'reputation'; the legal people may have done a quick search on the patents and trademarks database and decided it was all clear. I'm assuming Xoxos didn't apply for a trademark on the name.

[george]

Keep in mind trademarks are also country dependant.

[Kriminal]

"we have a name, lets build a synth..." laughable.

Xoxos element was published between end of Septemer and beginning of October last year. I doubt that Waves found the name a week before release.

In all Beta tests i have done so far the name was already clear with the first Beta or even during the Alpha...


Ingo

and many synths i have alpha and beta tested werent named till shortly before release, in one case not named until the release when a competition named it.

Same here. The names often change. Dune (a synth i tested and made presets for ) had a few names.

We are talking about a time of around 3 months (or less) here between both releases. Are you sure Dune was called differently during that time period before release?


Ingo

Yep.