Sad state of Native Instruments

[CrystalWizard]

i have seem a broad range of intentions and actions from the totally mercenary as you describe to genuinely interested in quality and selling something of value.

I bet none of the latter have more than 100 employees. Overheads go through the roof once you need to have someone to do the accounting/book-keeping, someone else to do payroll, HR, etc., etc. The back office stuff that you can mostly do yourself when you're only employing a handful of people starts to take over.

That is correct.

NI was not a ruthless bunch of bean counters in the 2000s, they had some vision, some interest in pushing the envelope of software synthesis ...

And yet they did nothing to make me even slightly interested in their products at that time. I still don't use any of those older products, even though I got a lot of them through Komplete.

Fair enough but thats not relevant to whether they were a mercenary company out for buck and out only for a buck. My point is they were interested in doing valuable work (and getting paid for it for sure). Which is not how i would characterize them now. Their only interest is money now. Generator/Reaktor was so impressive then and it's impressive still.

The ones we use are all things they have released since I became a customer - TRK-01, Straylight, SCHEMA: Dark. We used Massive on a few tracks on our last album but, in the process of moving everything across to Studio One, I replaced it in every song we'd used it in. I just don't like the harsh, "digital" tone of the thing. Ditto for Battery - it's on every track on our last album but, again, I replaced it when we moved to S1. I actually quite like Battery but it was creating too many headaches for us so we pretty much had to get rid of it.

i really like Battery 3 and use it a bit.

[BONES]

I never used B3, B4 was already standard when we signed onto Komplete (via a hardware purchase). As for NI becoming mercenary, just because they were doing stuff that interested you doesn't mean they weren't doing it for the most mercenary of reasons. Because, to me, their stuff was always way over-priced which gave me the impression of a mercenary company, hence my lack of interest.

[Teksonik]

You mean the developer that was made aware of (and acknowledged) a crash level bug in Hive 2 going on two years ago and still hasn't released a fix for the issue (that they caused by a wonky update)? Their "support" said the workaround is to roll back to the two year old version.

The official response is a fix "might" come this year and they made that sound like they're doing us a favor by fixing the bug they introduced. Or it might be another decade+ while they continue to work on Zebra 3 which will be outdated by the time it's released (if ever).

Yea that's the company that should be getting its arse kissed here on an hourly basis.

It's also an FL-studio(buffer size ) issue which is explained in the threads you created on the u-he forum .
Why don't you mention that ?
No need to blame U-he only .

I also didn't mention the fact that none of the other plugins in my over stuffed folder exhibits the same behavior in FL Studio. None...of...them.

It's a bug introduced by U-he in a Hive update that has been confirmed by them and never been fixed. Urs even got an attitude when I dared to bring it up a second time since the problem has existed for going on two years now. How dare I besmirch the name of the mighty U-he?

Response from their "support"? Roll back to a two year old version and maybe we'll issue a fix some day.

I realize that U-He gets genuflected by fans here but they should not be immune to criticism when it is deserved.

If another developer introduced a crash level bug no matter in what DAW and refused to fix it or were simply incapable of fixing the code they broke they would be flamed to a cinder. So U-he gets no preferential treatment from me.

Quite frankly they move at half the speed of a snail's pace (decade plus just to develop a version update?) and even more frankly they haven't released anything groundbreaking in a long time. Zebra 2 in it's day was top tier but today struggles to compete with other synths in my collection.

So I've stopped reaching for Hive 2 because I don't want to have to choose between a crash level bug or a severe timing issue with Arp/Seq patches depending on the buffer settings and have lost access to a plugin I've paid for because the developer has more attitude than aptitude.

U-he's "support" response? "Yea it sucks for us too"..........

[PieBerger]

You mean the developer that was made aware of (and acknowledged) a crash level bug in Hive 2 going on two years ago and still hasn't released a fix for the issue (that they caused by a wonky update)? Their "support" said the workaround is to roll back to the two year old version.

The official response is a fix "might" come this year and they made that sound like they're doing us a favor by fixing the bug they introduced. Or it might be another decade+ while they continue to work on Zebra 3 which will be outdated by the time it's released (if ever).

Yea that's the company that should be getting its arse kissed here on an hourly basis.

It's also an FL-studio(buffer size ) issue which is explained in the threads you created on the u-he forum .
Why don't you mention that ?
No need to blame U-he only .

I also didn't mention the fact that none of the other plugins in my over stuffed folder exhibits the same behavior in FL Studio. None...of...them.

It's a bug introduced by U-he in a Hive update that has been confirmed by them and never been fixed. Urshole even got an attitude when I dared to bring it up a second time since the problem has existed for going on two years now. How dare I besmirch the name of the mighty U-he?

Response from their "support"? Roll back to a two year old version and maybe we'll issue a fix some day.

I realize that U-He gets genuflected by fans here but they should not be immune to criticism when it is deserved.

If another developer introduced a crash level bug no matter in what DAW and refused to fix it or were simply incapable of fixing the code they broke they would be flamed to a cinder. So U-he gets no preferential treatment from me.

Quite frankly they move at half the speed of a snail's pace (decade plus just to develop a version update?) and even more frankly they haven't released anything groundbreaking in a long time. Zebra 2 in it's day was top tier but today struggles to compete with other synths in my collection.

So I've stopped reaching for Hive 2 because I don't want to have to choose between a crash level bug or a severe timing issue with Arp/Seq patches depending on the buffer settings and have lost access to a plugin I've paid for because the developer has more attitude than aptitude.

U-he's "support" response? "Yea it sucks for us too"..........

Touch grass

[Spring Goose]

I just want to say that Native Instruments doesn't just make music production stuff, also they make Traktor one of the most popular platforms for DJing. I use Traktor for DJing, it's rock solid. Also i have hardware made by NI and i have no complaints. I can't see NI going anywhere soon.

[BBFG#]

Think you might have missed the point, they've already went somewhere where many can't or won't go. Following any more looks more and more like throwing good money after bad.

[Spring Goose]

I'm just giving my perspective as a DJ using Native Instruments hardware and software. DJing is a massive market.

[Spring Goose]

Think you might have missed the point, they've already went somewhere where many can't or won't go. Following any more looks more and more like throwing good money after bad.

Can you summarise it with a bit more specific detail please. I don't think anybody wants to read 43 pages of this thread.

[martiu]

if they end Reaktor i will be sad, but i dont care for their other products anyway

[noiseboyuk]

Think you might have missed the point, they've already went somewhere where many can't or won't go. Following any more looks more and more like throwing good money after bad.

Can you summarise it with a bit more specific detail please. I don't think anybody wants to read 43 pages of this thread.

I think the logic is - NI no longer interested in serious music makers, only interested in one finger bedroom producers and DJs.

That's the argument anyway, which I don't think is accurate. As pointed out numerous times across the 43 pages, NI are producing absolutely top end stuff for composers and producers eg Valves Pro released last week. The hardcore moaners never seem to acknowledge this.

The real problem is that KVR is heavily skewed towards synthesis, and a huge premium is placed on authenticity to old models and also pioneering new stuff. NI used to be trailblazers there, but in a very crowded market seem to have withdrawn considerably from this area. Hence the thread.

[Spring Goose]

Think you might have missed the point, they've already went somewhere where many can't or won't go. Following any more looks more and more like throwing good money after bad.

Can you summarise it with a bit more specific detail please. I don't think anybody wants to read 43 pages of this thread.

I think the logic is - NI no longer interested in serious music makers, only interested in one finger bedroom producers and DJs.

That's the argument anyway, which I don't think is accurate. As pointed out numerous times across the 43 pages, NI are producing absolutely top end stuff for composers and producers eg Valves Pro released last week. The hardcore moaners never seem to acknowledge this.

The real problem is that KVR is heavily skewed towards synthesis, and a huge premium is placed on authenticity to old models and also pioneering new stuff. NI used to be trailblazers there, but in a very crowded market seem to have withdrawn considerably from this area. Hence the thread.

Cheers mate!

[egbert101]

Real music!!! LOLing so hard. Made my day.

[martiu]

Real music!!! LOLing so hard. Made my day.

[noiseboyuk]

Real music!!! LOLing so hard. Made my day.

Out of interest, who said that?

[machinesworking]

I think the logic is - NI no longer interested in serious music makers, only interested in one finger bedroom producers and DJs.

That's the argument anyway, which I don't think is accurate. As pointed out numerous times across the 43 pages, NI are producing absolutely top end stuff for composers and producers eg Valves Pro released last week. The hardcore moaners never seem to acknowledge this.

The real problem is that KVR is heavily skewed towards synthesis, and a huge premium is placed on authenticity to old models and also pioneering new stuff. NI used to be trailblazers there, but in a very crowded market seem to have withdrawn considerably from this area. Hence the thread.

IMO the problem is expectations VS the market. I think it's obvious that NI are going harder after two segments that aren't particularly represented here at KVR, commercial and TV composers and DJ/producers. The Play series appeals to both those markets but doesn't appeal to what I would say a large portion of what KVR is made up of, bedroom composers, solo electronic musicians putting out independent releases etc. That audience as a whole, wants more granular control over the sound, and longevity in the plug ins they use.

So NI put out massive amounts of content in the Komplete line up, and a lot of it is Play level romplers which are massively useful if you're a television composer on a tight schedule, and orchestral instruments which of course come in handy. At the same time they decide to stop developing Absynth since the cost will be more hiring the original developer to work on it etc. They announce in the forums that at the moment resources for Reaktor development are slim, and leave Massive X the hot mess of an interface that it is. It's no wonder this thread exists here.

Oh and to cement this difference I just installed Komplete 14 the other day with at least 6 new libraries for Massive X, i.e. support for Komplete Kontrol keyboards, deadline oriented TV producers, and DJs just cutting their teeth on producing.